The other title is totally out of sink- this is orchestrated fascism

growstuff apparently one woman shot by police, three due to ‘medical emergencies’

I have a friend for who voted for Trump and thought he was terrific. Ex-friend I fear.

I don’t understand why a so called modern technological rich country, the USA doesn’t have better control of it’s voting system. Trump supporters may be right, there may have been “illegal” voting, BUT it has been like this for sometime. So why didn’t Trump do something about it when he was first elected? He can hardly complain now.

The other disconcerting aspect is something we are seeing in this country too, where people who don’t accept a democratic vote, claim it isn’t democratic and resort to protests and even violence in the hope of getting their own way.

I don't believe for one moment that there has been large-scale "illegal" voting. There have probably been administrative errors and some people using a different address (maybe even a few cases of deliberate fraud), but IMO this is "fake news".

Avalon If you're referring to the Brexit protests, I don't remember violence like this.

Rosalyn69

I have a friend for who voted for Trump and thought he was terrific. Ex-friend I fear.

I have family who voted for this - ex family I fear.

It has been said so often here on GN that blood is thicker than water, and that families should agree to disagree. If you had a relative who voted for Trump and still supported him- would you continue to say that? I hope the answer is a firm NO.

Growstuff if the cap fits but we have had all sorts of protests in this country and it just seems people like to protest when they don’t get their own way. Fortunately our police don’t carry guns and on the whole we don’t have the same level of violence. Nonetheless it is still a worrying trend.

Much worse in the States at the moment. Trump was undoubtedly inflaming the situation until even he realised how out of hand it was. Not sure how orchestrated it was as no Republican senator was backing Trump. I think he is a lone wolf.

The scenes in Washington are disturbing especially as the Far Right is demonstrating to retain power despite loosing a democratic election.

In the UK we are still controlled by a Far Right almost fascist wing of the Conservative party. Even Nigel Farage who started the Brexit disaster thinks Johnson has gone too far. I'm in a number anti-Brexit Facebook groups where there are views encouraging violent opposition. I essentially deplore violence but the Brexiteers have consistently lied and ignored normal democratic opposition so to many violence is the only option left. Covid has meant that public protest is now understandably unlawful allowing the Government cover to persue an agenda that is clearly disasterous for the country.

The Conservative Party has to push for its old values to be restored if it is to regain respect, that may already be too late. Labour is recovering from the impact of Ed Milliband and Jeremy Corbyn which allowed the far right to win victory in December 2019. The far right coup engineered by a small number of extremists has to be stopped before it drags the country further into Banana Republic Status. MP's of all parties need to do the right thing. so far they have failed the country.

Our Electoral system has been broken for years allowing big parliamentary majorities with less than 40% of a low turnout. We desparately need a PR system so every vote will count and much more political awareness.

There will be big trouble here when Covid has passed unless parliament does right by the country. Better they do it before civil unrest forces them to. Alistair Campbell is trying to raise awareness of the aims of the far right beyond Brexit before it's too late, a voice in the wilderness but plenty of other politcians share his concern if not his willingness to speak out.

Alistair Campbell as in Tony Blair spin doctor and look where he lead us. The Labour Party needs to recapture it’s grass roots as Keir Starmer seems to have realised.

Avalon People do have the right to protest, especially if there is no legitimate and peaceful way to make their voices heard.

Nevertheless, what happened yesterday in the US seems to be on a different scale. I haven't been following it that closely, but it seems that Trump and his acolytes incited it. I'm also totally amazed at how inadequate the security was, which I don't believe was accidental.

25Avalon

Alistair Campbell as in Tony Blair spin doctor and look where he lead us. The Labour Party needs to recapture it’s grass roots as Keir Starmer seems to have realised.

Do you follow what Campbell has to say? Or are you just happy to smear him for his past?

Campbell is an intelligent political commentator, who always argues his case well. Sometimes I agree with him. Sometimes I don't. At least he doesn't resort to the kind of name calling and soundbites which so many politicians do.

@Cindersdad, you sound almost as if you’d like to see protest here, on the lines of what we saw yesterday in Washington.

FWIW I really don’t think we have an equivalent here of their white, ultra-right-wing element, at least partly from the Bible Belt.
For a start we don’t have anything remotely resembling the Bible Belt, thank goodness.

Iraq war

I agree with growstuff's post of 11.15, people do have a right to protest, the poor security could not have been accidental.
Jaylucy the entire American nation do not agree with Trump, another generalisation.

I honestly do not know if there will be protests over the actions of the Johnson Government. Alistair Campbell is merely reporting that Brexit itself is just the beginning of a right wing agenda started by Rees Mogg senior as far back as 1997. Rees Mogg, Steven Baker and the ERG envisage the destruction of the state as we know it replacing it with a far right system that pays little heed to democracy and the needs of the country. Boris Johnson is now condemning Trump having lauded him until recently. Johnson is just the hapless mouth piece for his far right masters.

America now has real hope of positive change. Here we need a similar shift from the lunacy of the extreme right, hopefully that shift can be peaceful.

I do agree and said at the time that Iraq was a huge mistake.

Labour now recognises that and is on the verge of siezing the initiative on Brexit. There are thankfully some Conservatives who are willing to stand up to the hard right. If Brexit goes badly wrong as it may well do parliament will take control and not before time.

Going back to 2003 the late Robin Cook resigned over Iraq and Ken Clarke was of several conservatives voted aginst involvement.

Cinders dad we will never get to the bottom it. It was the conservatives from Harold Mac onwards who wanted us to go in to the EEC as it was then. We were lied to by Ted Heath that it was not a political union which is exactly what it turned into. The French under de Gaulle wanted to keep us out not because they particularly disliked us but because deG didn’t think it would work given our nature. So it has turned out to be.

The situation in USA is different. We too easily think we understand them because we speak English. So much in American history that reflects in their behaviour today.

FWIW I really don’t think we have an equivalent here of their white, ultra-right-wing element, at least partly from the Bible Belt.
For a start we don’t have anything remotely resembling the Bible Belt, thank goodness.

Witzend& I do not think that the Democrats in the USA are as left as we in this country think when we talk of left wing parties. They are moderates so as a starting point their right is bound to be more to the right.
But this is extremism in action.

Agreed, Callistemon, their Democrats are nothing like our Labour - more like fairly centre-ground Conservatives.

And Democrats who really are lefty (like a sister of mine who’s lived in the US since her early 20s) despair of Biden, who’s seen as a wishy-washy version of Republican, who’ll just be a puppet of, and beholden to, big business.*
They wanted Bernie Sanders, but he was too lefty for your average Democrat.
*Let’s hope they’ll be proved wrong.

You’ve stolen my thunder Witzend as that’s what I was going to say?

Jaxjacky

Your title maybe should have said synch.

well Jaxjacky, I thank you for that. As a non native English speaker, I never knew that. Makes sense now, but all those years, I did not know.

No-one has responded about family- at what point does it become fair, and even essential- to distance yourself from family and friends and stop saying 'blood is thicker than water', it is 'only politics' you can just agree to disagree.

If you lived in the USA and were a decent one nation Republican- would this not be the time? I hope so.

I remember you talking about your US family biba ( years ago) and I agreed with you that I would limit my time with them as much as was possible, as they were not only ultra right wing but racists too.
At the moment with Covid rampant you gave a ready made excuse not to see them.

Have...not gave ( above)

I might very well distance myself from friends if they held views I found abhorrent and definitely if those views were racist . Possibly some family members but I would never distance my self from my children although I would be very disappointed that they held such views. It's all conjecture (if that's the correct word) anyway because they don't.

At the moment with Covid rampant

Oh, I almost forgot, sorry
How are you feeling now biba?
Much better I hope.

I wonder if some in the USA still have a fear of left-wing politics, a type of residual McCarthyism? Even fearing those slightly to left of centre?

Biba No-one has responded about family- at what point does it become fair, and even essential- to distance yourself from family and friends and stop saying 'blood is thicker than water',
Perhaps those of us with family in the USA just don’t want to discuss their private family matters with you on a public forum, especially given your subtle implication that anyone who doesn’t cut themselves off from a Trump-supporting family member is somehow lacking decency or moral fibre.