The other title is totally out of sink- this is orchestrated fascism

Spot on janeainsworth thank you.

Thanks from me too Jane.

it is not a discussion about anyone's personal family as such- but a discussion about where people's lines lie. Not just now, but in history too.

If you had been related to Himmler, or Pinochet - how long and far would you have supported the 'blood thicker' line. I am sure most people do have lines they won't cross. And thank goodness for that.

Callistemon

^At the moment with Covid rampant^

Oh, I almost forgot, sorry
How are you feeling now biba?
Much better I hope.

I wonder if some in the USA still have a fear of left-wing politics, a type of residual McCarthyism? Even fearing those slightly to left of centre?

Thank you- much better but left with feeling totally flat and exhausted- and sleeping every afternoon. Hopefully energy will return at some point.

Biba it is not a discussion about anyone's personal family as such- but a discussion about where people's lines lie

In your previous post, you said
No-one has responded about family- at what point does it become fair, and even essential- to distance yourself from family and friends
That read like a challenge to anyone with family/friends in the USA to justify continued contact with anyone with Republican affiliations, as if we are somehow culpable.
If you want a dispassionate discussion about how far politics should intrude on family relationships and where lines should be drawn, consider phrasing your posts less emotively and more objectively.

I am quite happy to answer you biba. Although my issue is not with someone in the US. I have a friend who I have know since we were 3, although we have lived at opposite ends of the country for a long time, we are close, our children were friends etc. She has never been particularly interested in politics, but if anything she was green party inclined, very involved in animal welfare etc. I have not seen her for obvious reasons for 18 months but have watched via Facebook, her become an ardent trump supporter. Lots of hatred of the media, anti vaccine etc. All I have done so far is challenge the vaccine issue, it is incredibly difficult and increasingly surreal. She has no connection with America. I feel I need to talk to her in real life before making a decision.

I wonder how much of this has been stirred up by the Russians and Chinese. On the quiet, they must have realised Trump was a decisive figure which is why they appear to have supported him in some ways.

loopyloo, a well suited name!!

''No-one has responded about family- at what point does it become fair, and even essential- to distance yourself from family and friends
That read like a challenge to anyone with family/friends in the USA to justify continued contact with anyone with Republican affiliations, as if we are somehow culpable.
If you want a dispassionate discussion about how far politics should intrude on family relationships and where lines should be drawn, consider phrasing your posts less emotively and more objectively.''

what is 'emotional and not objective' about the above? How would you re-phrase it, please.

25Avalon

I don’t understand why a so called modern technological rich country, the USA doesn’t have better control of it’s voting system. Trump supporters may be right, there may have been “illegal” voting, BUT it has been like this for sometime. So why didn’t Trump do something about it when he was first elected? He can hardly complain now.

The other disconcerting aspect is something we are seeing in this country too, where people who don’t accept a democratic vote, claim it isn’t democratic and resort to protests and even violence in the hope of getting their own way.

Who hasn't accepted a "democratic vote"? As far as I am aware all votes in recent years have been carried through.

Where did the idea come from that not changing your belief to agree the way chosen is the best way forward is anti-democratic? Surely that is what we see in the most extreme undemocratic of countries.

When did it become anti-democratic to protest - others have done so for decades?

When was there any violence actually against democracy in this country as we saw yesterday in the USA?

I think there is often confusion between a divided country and an undemocratic one.

Who hasn’t accepted a democratic vote? Several posters on GN for a start.?

lemongrove

Who hasn’t accepted a democratic vote? Several posters on GN for a start.?

Who? What have they done that in an anti-democratic way could stop a democratic vote going forward? That is what they are attempting in the US.

People are entitled to believe what they believe in this country (so far).

They are entitled to argue for that belief with anyone who choses to join in a discussion.

They are entitled to walk up and down with a placard or protest (covid permitting).

It is easy to throw out a simplistic accusation but what does it mean? Perhaps you could elucidate. Who, how and when has anyone done anything on this forum that could in anyway prevent the acceptance of a democratic vote in an undemocratic way?

lemongrove

Who hasn’t accepted a democratic vote? Several posters on GN for a start.?

I don’t understand that remark?

what is 'emotional and not objective' about the above? How would you re-phrase it, please

Biba I used the word ‘emotive’ not the word ‘emotional’. There’s a difference in meaning.
As I said in my last post, you seemed to be expecting posters to disclose their feelings about their own families and friends. That is not objective. It is emotive in that it is likely to produce feelings, rather than a rational response, in anyone tempted to answer you.

You could have asked, for example, ‘under what circumstances should a person consider severing ties with a family member or friend because of their political beliefs?’

That would encourage a response which doesn’t reflect or disclose a poster’s own family situation, which is no one’s business but their own.

No we just dont agree with Brexit. I for one have done nothing to overturn the vote, I am fairly aware of the limits of my power. We arent suddenly going to say oh yes I see what you mean, we just dont agree.

jane, everyone can respond, or not, in the was they see fit. So no, I didn't expect posters to disclose their feelings about their own families and friends- YOU put that interpretation on it.

So yes, happy to encourage a response which any poster feels happy and comfortable with.

I found it strange that anyone in my family or circle of friends voted for Trump- but accepted it. It is only when the blunt racism came out, that I truly began to question what their vote was about. As this racism was confirmed, it was time to put distance- but keep contact. However, if any of them would have taken part in what happened yesterday, or supported it- the line would be crossed forever.

biba - as you know, we have 'known ' eachother over many years on various websites.
All I can say, and I won't contribute to your threads after this, is that I don't find your over-dramatising thread titles helpful.
I once accused you of emulating the style of the UK Daily Mail. which it seems like to me.
Sorry you've been poorly though.

lemongrove

Who hasn’t accepted a democratic vote? Several posters on GN for a start.?

And this guy from Port Talbot, Steve Bray.
I for one don’t miss his ‘STOP BREXIT’ every blooming night on the news from his loudhailer!

As the OP says-

"There are many, many connections between Trump’s story and the people currently running the U.K. - not just similarities but the same shadowy figures, the same strategies, the same data harvesting and dark disinformation campaigns."

The glaringly obvious connection is the orchestrator, the puppeteer, the man who pushed forward this populist agenda in 2016, the man who must have enjoyed the spectacle in Washington DC more than anyone else - Vladimir Putin.

He may preside over a basket case economy in Russia, but his malicious influence over the USA and the UK has made him the most successful politician in the world.

How very sad, and if I may say, unfair, Fennel. But this is of course, your prerogative. I have only read the Daily Mail a couple of times and was appalled each time.

But what on earth do you mean 'after this'? After this what?

So no, I didn't expect posters to disclose their feelings about their own families and friends- YOU put that interpretation on it.

Of course that’s my interpretation.

When someone posts something, the onus is on them to be clear in their meaning, and aware of how their posts might be interpreted by others.

We are all so different- at this rate, one would never post anything at all. But yes, we are all responsible for our own interpretation and even, bias, fair or foe.

But other people will have a different interpretation. I have no problem with what Biba posted whatsoever.

If you try to make sense of what is happening and think about what is happening in USA, there have been a number of mob activities throughout the USA, not just in the capital, but yesterday a number of State Houses were breached. At the beginning of the year they tried to kidnap the Michigan Governor.
Many other instances.

Think of that together with the total lack of police protection yesterday.

It is almost as if all the instances are dress rehearsals for something too bad to think about. I am sure I’m wrong, but it doesn’t stop me feel very uncomfortable about what may be ahead.

Watching 'Tea with Mussolini' - and thinking about some on GN refusing to see reality.