Scottish independence, English me would like to understand

Romania and Bulgaria did indeed join in 2007 but are treated differently they are not Schengen nor do they use the Euro and dont get the full benefits that say France or Italy do.

I agree Scotland should get self determination, my concerns are the same as my Brexit concerns, “would leaving benefit the us”. I voted remain, so far there has been a lot of upheaval and still I don’t see how we are going to gain.

So it is with Scotland, some want to be rid of English rule and think EU rule is going to be better, even though there are no defined gains.

Romania and Bulgaria did indeed join in 2007 but are treated differently they are not Schengen nor do they use the Euro and dont get the full benefits that say France or Italy do.

There is no obligation for member states to do either of these things. They have to be 'working towards' using the euro.. Sweden has been doing this for decades.. and Schengen is a matter of choice.

(Not using the euro is highly beneficial. If it becomes independent and joins the EU Scotland must not, under any circumstances, join the euro. They have to create their own currency)

How are Romania and Bulgaria treated differently from France or Italy? Not goady, just curious...

I'm sure that the English, who are so dismissive of problems arising from their beloved Brexit and don't seem to mind any border inconveniences, will be fine with a Scottish/EU border. They'll be used to dealing with the 'nonexistent' but mighty problematic NI/EU border by then...

and think EU rule is going to be better

The EU doesn't rule member states.

I am British!! I was born in England, my parents were Welsh and brought in in Scotland!! Mr great Uncle was a founcer member of Plaid Cymru!! 50 years ago I was working in Glasgow and felt Scotland was definitely the downtrodden dog of Great Britain. I even joined the SNP briefly and made my views known!! Shortly after I moved to London and got my teeth into a different way of living. I suppose it took me a good 20 later to grow up and realise Scotland did not have the resources any more than Wales did. I lived again in Glasgow (an amazing city) and Aberdeen and am back down in England (Yorkshire)
Again I don't think Scotland can go it alone and hope they don't win. I hve a friend living there who has never lived anywhere else, she threatens to leave if Scotland gets its independence!!

sorry Gwen you couldn't be more wrong ,Scotland subsidises the rUK by Billions of pounds every year .You've been listening to too uch WM propoganda if you think otherwise.
Anyway its all off the Great Britsish government has found a way to keep us in our place.
Ah the cunning plan from the Downing Street bunker complex is to send Edward Windsor complete with household across the Rio Tweed presumably to live in Holyrood Palace and thus saving the union.
Well if nothing else it does show that Johnson is working to a script, it may well be a Blackadder script but definitely a script!!
That should do the trick !!

it absolutely astounds me that all these folk who dont live ,work or contribute in Scotland know whats best for us who do.
Therein lives the problem ENGLAND thinks it OWNS Scotland.I'm sorry to have to inform you that isnt the case NONE of your opinions are valid in the arguement ,,its for the SCOTTISH population to decide and no one else .Not Bojo or Lizzie or any other person outside of Scotland.

Interesting paddyanne. Can you direct me to that information. I didn’t know, and the only information I can find is about statistics comparing expenditure in Scotland compared with the UK, which as far as I know, includes England Ireland Scotland and Wales, so isn’t really helpful.

Ah the cunning plan from the Downing Street bunker complex is to send Edward Windsor complete with household across the Rio Tweed presumably to live in Holyrood Palace and thus saving the union.

I must say, when DH read that out to me this morning I spilt my coffee I was laughing so much!

You might like our Sophie, though, she's lovely!

If Scotland wish to break up the Union I feel that all four countries should be able to vote as to whether this should happen.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gwenisgreat1

I am British!! I was born in England, my parents were Welsh and brought in in Scotland!! Mr great Uncle was a founcer member of Plaid Cymru!! 50 years ago I was working in Glasgow and felt Scotland was definitely the downtrodden dog of Great Britain. I even joined the SNP briefly and made my views known!! Shortly after I moved to London and got my teeth into a different way of living. I suppose it took me a good 20 later to grow up and realise Scotland did not have the resources any more than Wales did. I lived again in Glasgow (an amazing city) and Aberdeen and am back down in England (Yorkshire)
Again I don't think Scotland can go it alone and hope they don't win. I hve a friend living there who has never lived anywhere else, she threatens to leave if Scotland gets its independence!!

Well there we have it. Gwen “grew up” when she went down to London. Maybe thinks we all need to move down to London for an education in how to live. Thinks we don’t have the resources. Hopes we don’t win. If we win its because that's what we'll have voted for.
If your friend was to leave Gwen, that’s a shame, but there are plenty who’d want to come here and live in an independent Scotland and we’ll welcome them.
I don’t know if we subsidise WM or not, and I don’t care. Does nobody think how insulting they are when they go on about how we can’t support ourselves? Are we less able than any other country of 5 million or less? Denmark? Iceland? Malta? Are we stupider than the inhabitants of these countries? Give us a break.
The rUK took us out of the EU and now we’re being told because of the implications of that, we DEFINITELY can’t leave the Union. Just listen to it.
We’re not too wee, too poor nor too stupid and if you keep telling us we are, well that’s only going to have one outcome.

Sorry, posted twice.

Maybe it needed saying twice

Susie42

If Scotland wish to break up the Union I feel that all four countries should be able to vote as to whether this should happen.

Scotland don't want to break up the union, we just want to leave it. Wales, Northern Ireland and England will still be in Union.

Same as the EU is even though the UK decided to leave.

If Scotland voted to be an independent country and weren't allowed to leave the Union because of an English vote to the contrary, that's a bit unfair, I'd say.

The London School of Economics forecast a £2,800 hit post Brexit to every Scottish person if they vote for independence in a referendum. It might be Project Fear. We had plenty of that doom & gloom from eminent economic experts during the Brexit referendum!

Urmstongran

The London School of Economics forecast a £2,800 hit post Brexit to every Scottish person if they vote for independence in a referendum. It might be Project Fear. We had plenty of that doom & gloom from eminent economic experts during the Brexit referendum!

Bit late to the party there, Ug (do you not read the thread before posting?) We covered that a few days ago.

LSE figures are nonsense, many have no data to be based on because the records of what they're trying to measure just aren't, and never have been, kept.

Whereas, I'm afraid that economic forecasts for post Brexit are absolutely sound. Just a very few maverick economists dissenting.

paddyanne

it absolutely astounds me that all these folk who dont live ,work or contribute in Scotland know whats best for us who do.
Therein lives the problem ENGLAND thinks it OWNS Scotland.I'm sorry to have to inform you that isnt the case NONE of your opinions are valid in the arguement ,,its for the SCOTTISH population to decide and no one else .Not Bojo or Lizzie or any other person outside of Scotland.

In all your posts you do make it sound as if everyone in Scotland wants independence and that in someway we are enslaved! We live well here with may benefits our neighbours south of the border would love to have eg free university education, free personal care etc. The vocal force heard in the country is from those who want independence while there is a huge part of the population who keeps quiet and wants things to stay as they are. Look what happened at the last referendum. So many badges and boards up saying Vote for Independence but look at the outcome. I understand your passion for your country and that is natural but it doesn't need to translate into independence.

Susie why would all four nations have to give consent?The "union" is a treaty between Scotland and England ..only those two signed the treaty .The other nations were aquired in different ways .It was a treaty ,not a deed of ownership .therefore we ,in international law are able to leave as and when we wish .

Susie42

If Scotland wish to break up the Union I feel that all four countries should be able to vote as to whether this should happen.

And should all of the EU countries have had a say in whether the UK left?

I am English, living in Wales 30+ years (do have Welsh and Irish heritage). Sadly yes, the Welsh who voted for Brexit do feel disenfranchised! It has not improved things, if anything things have got worse. There are also several movements pushing for Welsh independence, but of course this is less likely to happen given Wales is a much smaller nation and has much less economic clout. Just really saddens me that so many people in Wales voted for Brexit thinking it would improve their lives....... the major problem is as usual, the lack of investment from Westminster and the 'south east of England' centric bias.

We live well here with may benefits our neighbours south of the border would love to have eg free university education, free personal care etc. The vocal force heard in the country is from those who want independence while there is a huge part of the population who keeps quiet and wants things to stay as they are. Look what happened at the last referendum.

Dusthen I said that earlier today - there may well be a quiet majority in Scotland who do not want independence but their voices are not heard; they do not shout loudly. Of course, they will be able to give their opinion - again - if there is another referendum.

Of course it does Dusty ,a life half lived is no life at all .We should be in control of our country devolution only gives a tiny amount of control.As you yourself have admitted we have lots of benefits that the other UK nations dont and those are entirely down to the Scottish governments running of the budget.Wehave a set budget that HAS TO BALANCE ,not for us the racking up of trillions of pound of debt ...sadly we are handed a bill for @10% of Englands debt .
Its coming up to 100 years since I reland gianed their freedom ,its well past time we joined the world as an Independent country.With no disrespect meant at all I find that the older generation are the ones who still think we couldn't manage our own country ,my FIL was one ,the younger generations who have grown up with the reconvened Scottish Parliament are ready to take the enxt step and embrace Independece .Iwould hope that the no's could do it for the next generation ,their children and grandchildren ,Surely they deserve a country run by them for them.Lets face it WM hasn't made such a great job of it for many decades

Sorry, I spelt your name wrong Dustyhen2010

Of course they shout about it. Look at this thread!

And Baroness-to-be Davidson, Dougie Ross and Willie Rennie can't keep off the topic because they know that this is the only thing they have to offer the Scottish electorate. That they are not-SNP.

And all those things that we have that our neighbours don't have? Its because we choose to have them instead of some of the things that money are spent on down South. Although I still remember being told earlier on this thread that we're only good at spending money, not at making it

^ there may well be a quiet majority in Scotland who do not want independence but their voices are not heard;^

That'll be like the 'quiet majority' that were going to vote Trump back into power last November, then?

Polling tells a different story and, despite people's scorn for it, generally tends to be correct. Because, properly done, it gets responses from all sections of the population. Including those who, it is claimed, have 'unheard voices'.

I was feeling a bit guilty about always coming back with a quick response when posters put an anti-independence viewpoint. But then I realised that all the anti-independence viewpoints I'd read today were about how Scotland couldn't manage on our own and how difficult things would be for us if we left.

Would an anti-independence supporter like to tell us a good reason why we should stay that isn't negative? Serious question.

Having Prince Edward to live in Holyrood Palace doesn't count