The fear women live with

In an ideal world we should all be able to live our lives in peace & harmony, going where we want when we want without a care in the world. But it will never be like that ever. There’s just too many nutters about & no amount of candlelight vigils will stop that.
Woman have to be sensible ( and so do men as they get murdered by strangers more often ) I have two daughters. I always tell them to get a cab home and never walk home alone at night. I tell my son that too!
It’s just not worth the risk. It’s never going to change.

Kandinsky

In an ideal world we should all be able to live our lives in peace & harmony, going where we want when we want without a care in the world. But it will never be like that ever. There’s just too many nutters about & no amount of candlelight vigils will stop that.
Woman have to be sensible ( and so do men as they get murdered by strangers more often ) I have two daughters. I always tell them to get a cab home and never walk home alone at night. I tell my son that too!
It’s just not worth the risk. It’s never going to change.

Who’s talking about an ideal world? We’re talking about doing what we can to make it a safer works. No one expects a vigil to do that - any vigil is a symbol of a hoped for change. And it’s not ‘nutters’ ( which is an ableist word anyway and demeans people with mental health problems) but ordinary men who cat call from van windows, leer at schoolgirls, tub up again women on the tube, grope them by the photocopier and generally facilitate and enable the more extreme of their brothers to indulge in violence. And perhaps you’ve got advice from low paid women about taking a taxi home from work or a nurse returning to her car late at night after finishing her shift ?

Excuse typos - I’m just fed up of having to repeat myself

And taxis are not safe. You might want to listen to the precautions young women feel they need to take getting into a taxi. I actually dont think the vigils or protests will change things to be honest. It's to do with all sorts of things, prosecution rates, the disbelief of women, the myths that surround the behaviour of rape victims, porn, the list just goes on and on.

Galaxy

And taxis are not safe. You might want to listen to the precautions young women feel they need to take getting into a taxi. I actually dont think the vigils or protests will change things to be honest. It's to do with all sorts of things, prosecution rates, the disbelief of women, the myths that surround the behaviour of rape victims, porn, the list just goes on and on.

Fair point re taxis. Quite a counsel of despair there ?. I think the current discussions might just might make some people a bit more aware but this type of change is so difficult. I think the most depressing aspect is the everyday sexism that goes unremarked upon or is seen as not a big deal. That’s a place to start and we could all play a part in that - well those of us who think it matters could. Like the poster’s husband who told off the men in the pub. Drip drip

Ban pornography for a start

Atqui

Ban pornography for a start

And this is another depressing aspect. Thanks for that ?

I am optimistic that things can and will change, albeit slowly. Women no longer on the whole put up with the type of sexism and harassment that they did in my youth. However obviously we still have a long way to go. I just wish there was more solidarity amongst females, instead of some of the less than supportive comments, and acceptance of the status quo on here.

Delene100

This has always been the case re safety for women. We have to use our common sense. I would rather splash out on a taxi than walk in the dark for over an hour. The outside is not safe anymore so we have to view all strangers as potential foes. I am 70 now but years ago I was groped on a crowded London tube. I firmly stuck my stiletto heels into his foot and got off at the next stop.

I had a call from a friend yesterday that she and a friend, was walking in broad daylight, with her five year old child. Her friend was stabbed in the leg and she was slightly bruised. We all need to carry something like a small can of hairspray or panic alarm. We need to keep ourselves safe by not walking alone at night, arranging to take a taxi home, etc.

Not wanting to speak ill of the dead, the deceased broke lockdown rules by visiting a friend. Sadly no one mentioned this. May this lovely young girl rest in peace.

Victim blaming with bells knobs and whistles. Hang your head in shame Delene 100

Taxis are not safe. Grooming scandals and John Warboys anyone? I made sure my then 17 year olds had the emergency cab fare (along with dad or I will come and always stay in a group etc etc). They told me 20 years ago taxis were awful because “sleazy drivers’ tried it on.

Yes, the cost of taxis, and if you live outside a town/city, there are no taxi services at night anyway.

I was wondering how long it would be before someone mentioned lockdown rules in relation to this tragic death. It seems some people would have felt right at home in the Stasi.

Here’s a nice example from out state broadcaster reporting an arrack by a man on a girl

‘Teenage girl headbutts man after being grabbed on path’

Clearly what they meant to write was

‘Man headbutted by teenage girl after grabbing her on path’

See the difference? See why it matters? See what is says about entrenched attitudes?

Anyway, good on her

Many years ago I attended a lecture on violence towards women in film.

What it showed was that in rape scenes, scenes of sex etc it was almost always viewed from the male perspective. The women were simply seen as objects in the scene and no appreciation was shown of how the violence affected her. Frankly back then they couldn’t have shown that as it would have been classified as too violent or poor taste.
Literature too treated rape etc largely from the male perspective. Women swooned as the man “took” her after with violence written as strength or she sort of gave in.

I think this contributed to the issue, where sex and violence was linked without apparent consequences. In any case if a woman became pregnant she was ostracised. Still is in certain cultures.

Yes women live with the fear of poverty, the greatest worry of all.

This is concerning but I don't think it has changed much over the years. I get so angry when I think that women still have to be scared to walk alone at night. I live in South London and I do still come home in the dark alone when I have to but it is not just the night time we have to worry about. The other day when the weather was beautiful I walked to a local park and found a bench in the sun to sit on and read a book. After a while a man came along and started "exercising" right in front of me. He did not have gym clothes on and he looked dirty and unkempt and started doing squats right in front of me and grinning at me. I felt very uncomfortable and finally moved away. I was very angry that I couldn't just sit in the sun and feel safe!

Rowsie no doubt he just thought it was "a bit of fun" - men need to be made to understand that any unwanted attention can be scary and is certainly not "fun" for the women targeted.

I think this might be the tipping point of women's tolerance into fury. The cruel murder of a woman, because she was a woman, by a representative of our state security system and now the stupid, incomprehensible, male heavy-handed enforcement to control women's necessary public grief and anger at Clapham Common last night. At least we might see Misogyny become a hate crime. It was ludicrous last week that Scotland protected the rights of transwomen..but not women themselves. Its women that get harmed and killed. this sad turn up of events might end up saving many.

I was 14 and walking to school when a man went past me on his bike. Minutes later I saw the bike dumped in a hedge, then the man walked towards me with all his bits on show. I was terrified as he literally brushed past me. Fortunately I saw some boys from school ahead of me. I ran to them but didn't say what had happened. I was too ashamed to tell anyone, not even my mum.

" male heavy-handed enforcement to control women's necessary public grief and anger at Clapham"

on BBC tv this a.m it has been suggested that someone at the head of the police, (can`t think of the job title) a woman is responsible for how the police (no women police?) behaved.

just saying

Cressida Dick is the boss. she is being heavily criticised...and her resignation is being asked for...priti patel at the home office is also female...she is worried. It was a dreadful error of judgement by those at the top who were just stupidly following the governments line..(.which is how they got there) ...the police holding down the protestors were male..the heavy handed security pc's were male. They have brains they didn't hold back. Yet when there have been large male gatherings in the pandemic...football etc the police don't move in for fear of violence. women are an easy touch. this is a turning point. lets hope. what are you just saying?

Men often accuse women of misandry when incidents like this arise and we demand strong action to safeguard us.
Perhaps this tweet below will help them understand where we are coming from.

No, not all men. But if I gave you a box of Maltesers and told you that 1 in 10 of them was actually a nugget of s**t rolled into a ball and dipped in milk chocolate, you'd be wary of all of them, wouldn't you?

Are things really that bad in the UK? They are not here.

Any woman who fears she will be attacked while walking in the street or using public transport should learn self-defence as fast as possible.

I remember being told when I was young in the 1970s that the more capable and confident you look, the less likely you are to be attacked.

The only man who tried to grab me, got an elbow in his midriff and my foot approaching his groin when he let go. I got a slap to his nearest cheek in too, whilst screaming loudly.

I suspect these tactics still work.

I do agree that it is reprehensible that anyone should be afraid to go about by herself, or even himself, but the only way of stopping it, is to make it very clear to those who try attacking "defenceless women" that we are not defenceless, at all.

Self defence doesn't work. Its a complete fallacy that learning a few defensive moves will protect you from a person with a weight advantage and the advantage of surprise, if they are really intent on something.

No doubt there are martial arts practitioners that could fight off an assailant but the suggestion that a quick slap will see someone off is a dangerous delusion. Fight back by all means, but don't think that self defence classes are the way out of this.

It shouldn't.
If its the police office it does make it worse .
Who have we been told to look towards when we are in need.
For me knowing it could or might be an officer of the law, whoes job it is to protect makes it more shocking it will be a massive betrayal
My faith is shaken

From what I saw on news reports there was an element male and female who just wanted to confront the police and others who just wanted to party.
Pretty much what you get at any demonstration or large gathering so I understand why the police didn’t want it, hundreds decided to go anyway.