The fear women live with

PipandFinn

I'm 64 now and have lived in fear of men most of my life. I was sexually and physically abused as a child then physically abused as a women. It's only in the last couple of years that I feel I can have an opinion without my heart racing with fear (although it still does happen). In my experience a lot of men don't really like women especially strong women but i do realise this opinion stems from my awful experiences with them....

We are a family of strong women and our sons are gentle and empathetic. Not sure if there is a link?

Did you notice the woman on the radio this morning tying herself up in knots trying NOT to say most women get murdered at home (well, most women that DO get murdered)?

WWM2, I’d be surprised if there isn’t a link between the gentle, empathic men that many of us are fortunate to love and be loved by, and those men having grown up with strong (and gentle) women around them. Of course mother’s have a role, so do fathers. Their responsibility is less often the focus than the blame attached to mothers if their children behave badly.

I heard Part of a radio 5 phone in this morning, on the subject of male violence towards women. It was a bit like travelling back into the 70’s when women’s groups discussed this topic. I wish that young women were subject to less sexual harassment now, they are no safer than we were.

This thread is about violence perpetrated by men onto women. We don’t need reminding men are also raped and beaten, almost always by other men.

ExaltedWombat

Did you notice the woman on the radio this morning tying herself up in knots trying NOT to say most women get murdered at home (well, most women that DO get murdered)?

This isn’t what this thread is about. If you’d like to discuss where most women get murdered, you could start another thread. I’m sure lots of us have plenty to say about these kind of murders.

Katie59

We are the weaker sex and vulnerable to violence in the street and in the home, there are men and some women that will take advantage of that. Nothing we say now or have ever said will change that, violence seems to get worse not better despite many campaigns.

All we can do is protect ourselves I wouldn’t dream of walking unaccompanied at night, or indeed some areas in daylight. I’ve got tremendous sympathy with this girls family and would like the streets to be safer, but they won’t,

Good post Katie?? Same here.

There are times when with all the precautions for our safety (both men and women) taken, anyone can still be dragged into a car or a house etc and attacked, and raped, or murdered, but it makes sense to do our best to avoid those situations where we possibly can, and to hell with what women ‘should’ be able to do ( in the garden of eden.)
We don’t know in this particular case what’s what, but it was reported that the victim set off on a five mile journey home.
That may not be correct of course ( it does sound a very long walk home!)

For there to be a serious debate about abuse against women which most women I know have experienced to some degree, and why a women is murdered by a male every three days on average, we need to look at the structures in society that maintain it. For example sex inequality, objectification of women, beliefs about masculinity and femininity relationships and sex-roles. This would be a start.

And with each acceptance of a restriction, the restrictions become worse. Now apparently it's the length of the walk.
I always find it interesting how uncomfortable the statistics make people. I think in terms of sexual offences it would be worth having a conversation about porn and the impact that has on behaviour and also the need to focus on the issue of consent.

I have wrote and deleted this post so many times but do you know women with learning disabilities are 7 mores times more likely to be sexually abused by men than women without a learning disability? The problem of male to female violence is chronic in all its forms

Come on lemon grove, I must be misreading your post. In my early 30’s I’d often walk 3-5 miles home at 9pm. A friend’s daughter lives in the same area as this young murder victim . She phoned her mum to say it’s scared her from walking home early evening.
I used to stress to my teenage/early 20 year old daughters never walk home alone. They always had the emergency £10 cab fare but preferred to walk ‘because the cab drivers are sleazy ‘. This was pre the grooming scandal - pre John Warboys the cab driver who raped and murdered.
Yes of course women need to do all we can to be safe but the danger is men. Is it worse than the 70’s and 80’s Reclaim the Night marches period. I’m older so feel more vulnerable. I also wonder if increased use of pornography leaves women at greater risk.

Violence does not necessarily affect younger women either, but I read (Feminist Census) that shockingly women over 60 are twice as likely to be killed by their own son than a stranger.

JaneJudge

I have wrote and deleted this post so many times but do you know women with learning disabilities are 7 mores times more likely to be sexually abused by men than women without a learning disability? The problem of male to female violence is chronic in all its forms

I’m glad you posted this. I remember years ago reading that the introduction of Makaton gave the possibility for abused people to have a vocabulary to describe their sexual abuse. However, I was also aware at how much sexual abuse went unprosecuted even when reported because they were deemed to be ‘unreliable witnesses’ that a jury would never believe.

I didnt know that particular statistic Jane but it doesnt surprise me, its partly to do with the value that society places on particular groups of people. I dont know how to phrase this but I find your views on that particular issue so helpful. Sorry if that sounds odd.

Just out of interest ( and following my conversation with dh) how many of you know what the men in your lives would do to reduce the fear factor felt by women out in public ( like crossing the road) I know this is only a small part of the problem.

Well, when I was a young woman of twenty something, I and many other young women did walk on our own at night and came to no harm.

Admittedly we didn't do so in Glasgow on the evenings of a Ranger-Celtics match or at all in the weeks where Preacher John was killing young women in the streets but at other times we did.

I have also walked alone in Copenhagen, Hamburg and many smaller towns.

I wasn't especially foolhardy either.

Nowadays, I would hesitate to walk alone, and I would certainly advise young women not to.

So what has changed? Well, there are no police walked the beat any more, and a few of those who kill or rape have been found to be taxi drivers, whom you used to be able to trust.

So what is the answer? Learn some form of self-defence whether you are old or young, unless you want a return to Victorian days where women had to be protected all the time.

Yes it would be foolhardy not to try to take mitigating actions, but I think that men must step up and decide what they need to do to change the situation that appears to be getting worse.

It seems to me that the only difference between our experience as young women and young women today is the fact that today we are willing to talk about our experiences but the actual experiences do not appear to have got any better, in fact we all seem even more fearful,

Why do people kill/ murder ? What makes them do it ?
Millions of us live side by side and wouldn't even tread on a spider so why is it that some feel fit to kill ? What is it that drives them to do it ?

i remember about 35 years ago when the police told women to stay at home and not go out of an evening. i replied that if women paid the same in taxes etc then why should they not have the same access to buses, roads etc. No men were told to stay at home - just women. I used to go to self defence lessons and the lady that ran it told me that a group had designed a spray to be used on attackers inconjuction with the police . the day before the item was to go on sale the police - yes the same police that had helped with the design- said it would prosecute anybody using it. Trust in most police was lost then.

I reckon the above is another thread really as it's an in-depth discussion.

Just read this on BBC news site from Marian FitzGerald visiting professor of criminology at Kent University. She said, ‘while womens’ fear was real statistics showed women were less likely to be murdered than men. Yes the fear is real and it is heightened when something like this is in the news. That doesn’t mean the risk has changed .... men are far more likely to be murdered...... Women account for a third of all murders’

There were 671 murder victims in the UK in 2018/19 64% of victims were men.

I had not realised there were so many, scary thought.

My view is that we, as women, need to educate the men in our lives as to how to treat people. Our sons, fathers, partners, brothers have to be re-educated about what women experience and how to relate to them. We should feel safe to walk, travel, work and live anywhere felling safe from harm. What we wear has no bearing on how men should respond to us. I wore hot pants and mini skirts because that was the fashion, not because I intended to be abused or victimised in any way. Plus it didn’t happen either!!
A man can walk down the street bare chested ( not always a pretty sight!) but not receive the abuse, foul language that a woman receives if she wears a crop top etc.
Men need to change, not women live in fear!

Gwyneth

Just read this on BBC news site from Marian FitzGerald visiting professor of criminology at Kent University. She said, ‘while womens’ fear was real statistics showed women were less likely to be murdered than men. Yes the fear is real and it is heightened when something like this is in the news. That doesn’t mean the risk has changed .... men are far more likely to be murdered...... Women account for a third of all murders’

But we are not talking about just murder are we?

We are talking about yes murder, but violence, harassment, discrimination, etc the many, many daily experiences that women endure.

Why do men feel that they can get away with such behaviour?
Why do men feel the need to display such behaviour?

Why do we need to re-educate men who are already considerate and respectful towards women? I really wish some people on here would not assume that all men are out to harm women. Most are not and those who are determined to assault and kill anyone will probably do so anyway. The murder of the young woman in the news is dreadful but we need to be careful that we do not treat all men out there as prospective murderers.

Gwyneth

Why do we need to re-educate men who are already considerate and respectful towards women? I really wish some people on here would not assume that all men are out to harm women. Most are not and those who are determined to assault and kill anyone will probably do so anyway. The murder of the young woman in the news is dreadful but we need to be careful that we do not treat all men out there as prospective murderers.

We don’t and aren’t. If you think that you aren’t reading the posts properly.

Maybe you should take up this point with Prof. FitzGerald? I am only quoting her words.