The fear women live with

I assume you agree or why else would you post it without a reference?

Oh dear - how many times do we have to say this is not a thread about murder alone?

Two things concern me here. One is the publication of the name and face of the policeman accused, before he has been charged. I thought this was illegal. The other is that Sarah was reportedly "visiting friends". How could she do this? Was she in their bubble? I have not been able to visit friends for over a year.

The men in my family are respectful of women as they are of all human beings but perhaps you have had different experiences which have influenced your views. From my perspective the men in my family do not need to be re-educated as they were always encouraged to treat other human beings in a considerate and caring way.

This will never go away,whether we like it or not we are the weaker sex physically. Since historical times women have been used as pawns or signs of conquest during wars.
We need to educate our sons how to treat women not with scorn or take advantage like a lot do.
Who hasn't seen a little boy being praised for being brave and an older one for getting stuck in ,in at a Rugby match or boxing ring. Little girls are still expected to look clean and neat and not be "Bolshi".whilst their brothers are praised for standing their ground.
I have witnessed it in the classroom and at parents nights,attitudes so different towards one sex than the other.
Men will always be able to dominate us physically but we have to educate them to stop wanting to.
The big question is how?

This problem has always been with us and always will be. I remember 60 years ago, when I was aged 10 (attacked by an older boy), things were the same. All we can do to protect ourselves is (maybe) learn basic.self-defence.

Gwyneth

The men in my family are respectful of women as they are of all human beings but perhaps you have had different experiences which have influenced your views. From my perspective the men in my family do not need to be re-educated as they were always encouraged to treat other human beings in a considerate and caring way.

Is anyone saying all men need to be re-educated? Although tbf I think a revision course might be in order for those not in need of the full ‘ how to stop being an inconsiderate jerk around women’ course.

The last couple of threads have mentioned re-educating men. Clearly there are men who treat women very badly but I feel saddened when the male sex generally are being held responsible for unacceptable and deplorable behaviour by a minority. There are actually some good, caring men in this World. I’ve made my point now and that’s all I wanted to say. But I’m going now and as I’m a grown up will let you have the last word. ??








disagree as you

Why do they keep referring to her remains and not her body it chills me to the bone if it means what I think it means It’s just to difficult to imaging
This particular policeman has another separate charge of indecent exposure apart from this case so sounds like a man who should not have been in the police force at all
It has always been unsafe for woman to be out alone at night from when I was a kid it’s not something that’s just happened it needs addressing now it should have been addressed years ago Yes young men can be attack mainly by other young men but that’s really not what this thread is about it’s about how we shouldn’t have to live in fear ever from young to old

Gwyneth

The last couple of threads have mentioned re-educating men. Clearly there are men who treat women very badly but I feel saddened when the male sex generally are being held responsible for unacceptable and deplorable behaviour by a minority. There are actually some good, caring men in this World. I’ve made my point now and that’s all I wanted to say. But I’m going now and as I’m a grown up will let you have the last word. ??

disagree as you

What a shame when this is a serious thread on a serious topic that there have been posters trying to turn it into either what about the men or all about murder. It’s not about either but about women and fear in a variety of everyday situations. And all men have to be part of the solution. Maybe those that think they have nothing to learn might actually have the most to reflect on. It’s not a thread for the crying with laughter emoji imo.

I think there is far too much in the media about this tragic case. Whatever happened to " innocent until proved guilty", and sub judice? I remember being at a friends house watching TV when the police caught the Yorkshire ripper and they said "we've got him", I was appalled.

grannysyb

I think there is far too much in the media about this tragic case. Whatever happened to " innocent until proved guilty", and sub judice? I remember being at a friends house watching TV when the police caught the Yorkshire ripper and they said "we've got him", I was appalled.

I agree - but the papers providing details about this do so because it makes them money. He hadn’t even been charged yet.

How is it a minority of men? Just because you think the men in your house couldn't possibly do it?

I am in the unfortunate position of having to assess risk for my daughter that I cannot even discuss with my own Mum and I feel that I will be judged for discussing risk. I will give you an example. My daughter has a severe learning disability and lives in a house with other people with LD with 24/7 care on site. As part of the law we are allowed to opt for 'female only' personal care for her (something that has been threatened very recently by law) but we accept that on the very rare occassion that care, for whatever reason may have to be taken out by a male carer. My daughter takes a seizure medication that should not be given to women of child bearing age as it would damage the foetus. Those groups are allowed to take it if they sign paperwork and agree to taking prescribed oral contraceptives. I have refused to agree to this to several medical professionals as my daughter does not have capacity, receives female only personal care and any sexual activity cannot be consented to and it puts her at more risk of sexual abuse and rape off any males she comes into contact with, including predatory males who may get paid to be her carer.

Isn't that hilarious?

This is why I don't post about the threat to women with LDs, they are quite frankly invisible and the rest of us not that far behind in a lot mens minds

Also to state that it's a minority of men is of no help whatsoever as there is no way of knowing which men are a risk. I am really happy that the men in your life are good kind men as are the men in mine. However if you are talking about assessment of risk it is impossible to differentiate between the good kind men and those who are not.

Attacks like the one in London always bring to mind how vulnerable women are. I remember the fear in the days of the Yorkshire Ripper. I felt angry that I couldn't walk home from work alone in the dark without looking over my shoulder.

As a mum and nana I now fear for my daughters and grandaughters. Unfortunately there will always be some men who are predators.

Jane I hope you don’t stop providing your insight into the many issues around your daughter whether on this thread or others. It’s right we should consider all females of all ages when discussing women and fear and their vulnerability vis-a-vis men. None of us who are seriously discussing this topic would use a laughing emoji.

I’ve travelled the world on my own and never felt threatened, but I was and am very careful, I’ll still walk home from my local pub on my own, it’s only about 5 minutes away, I always have my mobile easily to hand, wherever I am.
I have, hopefully, taught my children to look after themselves and their friends, always said if they were stuck, I’d pay for a taxi. I offer no answers and feel very sorry for those of you who have suffered, or are still, suffering after any dreadful experience. It’s a shame there aren’t more men on GN to perhaps venture their views.

In reality it is possible to assess risk and tell the difference between good kind men and those who are not. But it's not foolproof, and unfortunately relies on those men already being in the criminal justice system. However assessing risk and managing it are two different tasks. Neither is is a mean feat to attempt to educate men in that system about their violence - most would rather remain violent and deal with the attempt to change that with further violence. I speak from experience, I was once stupid enough to accept a job with the probation service which involved rehabilitating and educating men who had served time for DV. Try walking home being followed by a man like that and finding a gravestone with 'RIP bitch' in spray paint on your front door. Hence me saying I was stupid to take the job. So, we can assess who they might be in many cases, wha the can't do is lock them up before they commit a crime, or keep them there forever when they do.

Thank you for posting about this important issue, which must be an ongoing worry for you JaneJudge.

This topic is not to do with a women’s behaviour, their taking responsibility for their mode of dress, drinking, or being out alone, but all about where the power lies in our society, and the inequality and misogyny that women face day to day, and which is normalised. Until this changes women’s lived experiences will not be taken seriously.

Greeneyedgirl

Thank you for posting about this important issue, which must be an ongoing worry for you JaneJudge.

This topic is not to do with a women’s behaviour, their taking responsibility for their mode of dress, drinking, or being out alone, but all about where the power lies in our society, and the inequality and misogyny that women face day to day, and which is normalised. Until this changes women’s lived experiences will not be taken seriously.

Absolutely spot on. It’s about power, power structures and the normalisation as you say of inequality and misogyny. I dislike the emphasis on physical violence as though this is the only issue. Every single day females of all ages are abused in a variety of ways which are normalised as joking/banter/ paying a compliment/ showing you’re fancied ( be grateful bitch). I understand what Nell posted about assessing and managing risk but I think that applies more to physical violence and not the everyday sexism and harassment that is rife.

Thought I would look up the number of murders last year rather than relying on the papers. I was surprised to find that 73% of murders were of men. The women that were murdered were more likely to have been killed by their partner.
This website does contain a lot of information that has not been sensationalised by a newspaper.
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020#groups-of-people-most-likely-to-be-victims-of-homicide

simtib

Thought I would look up the number of murders last year rather than relying on the papers. I was surprised to find that 73% of murders were of men. The women that were murdered were more likely to have been killed by their partner.
This website does contain a lot of information that has not been sensationalised by a newspaper.
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020#groups-of-people-most-likely-to-be-victims-of-homicide

Aaghhhh It would have helped if you had read the thread before posting . If you want to discuss sex differences in murder victims you could start a new thread and those of us who wish to could join in. In the meantime this thread is not about that. .

With all due Greeneyedgirl and SW - the OP does focus on death in the body of the post, so the invitation is for people to post their thoughts on both violent crime against women and the inherent fear which we all carry with us and which is woven through how we live as women. Most people aren't going to read the whole thread and note where it digresses. It's only the title that talks about fear specifically.

Maybe it should be this topic that is started in a new thread with a much clearer agenda?

springishere

Two things concern me here. One is the publication of the name and face of the policeman accused, before he has been charged. I thought this was illegal. The other is that Sarah was reportedly "visiting friends". How could she do this? Was she in their bubble? I have not been able to visit friends for over a year.

One thing concerns me here. A young woman was murdered. Almost certainly by a man

It was not her fault that she was murdered

NellG

With all due Greeneyedgirl and SW - the OP does focus on death in the body of the post, so the invitation is for people to post their thoughts on both violent crime against women and the inherent fear which we all carry with us and which is woven through how we live as women. Most people aren't going to read the whole thread and note where it digresses. It's only the title that talks about fear specifically.

Maybe it should be this topic that is started in a new thread with a much clearer agenda?

Fair point. I suppose the fear aspect is the underpinning theme and this fear is imo related to the life experiences of everyday sexism, abuse of all kinds and harassment. Many women know men want to hurt them in myriad ways ( not all physical) and so physical fear is rooted in this. It’s not a discussion about what about the men because men simply do not have the everyday experience of all types of abuse that feeds and develops the fear. I think issues of the murdered or abuser being known to the women are important and worth discussing elsewhere if someone wants to start that but this thread is about the fear of random strangers - whether it’s bring catcalled as you walk along the street or hear the footsteps behind you in the street.