The fear women live with

I'm becoming a cynical old bat.
This problem isn't about women who should be free to walk wherever and whenever they want to.
This is a problem with men, men have to realise that though, of course they would never do a thing like that themselves, given the opportunity others will. Back to the school room, back to the education of males by mothers and female relatives and most definitely, it's up to men, all of them to teach their sons, to police each other. It's not our problem so instead of continually telling us to check behind, be careful, wear clothes that are not suggestive and the rest of that bull shit, men have to realise keeping us prisoners to protect us won't work, they have to change. What's up with them. Lack of self control? Help me, 50% of the population need to sort THEIR problem out.

With four sons and one daughter we raised our boys to treat girls/women how they want their sister to be treated.

Until males are routinely educated on respecting ALL women this problem will always be around.

Some young men are around violence in their homes, see their mothers beaten and verbally abused, this becomes their normal.

Society has to change to give females the same freedom on the streets as males!

Women’s hour on R4 were talking about this and the Reclaim the Night movement started in Leeds in 1971. The woman speaking said the situation had never really improved. LBC have been talking about this since 10.00.

I’ve lived in a number of places and the only place I ever felt safe being out alone after dark was on the west coast of Ireland living in a small village. I’d love to feel safe enough to go from our local bus to home after dark but it’s not to be.

Tonight I shall be returning from my daughter’s on public transport then the walk to home, about 5 minutes. Every time I do this I hurry home and breath a sigh of relief when home with the doors locked.

It’s a shocking state of affairs but I don’t currently see a solution.

My heart goes out to anyone who has been attacked be they female or male. If I feel as I do how much more must others feel if they have been subject to unprovoked violence?

I don't think there is any woman who hasn't experienced some form of harassment in their lives. When I was a teenager a comment could be dealt with by a sarcastic reply but these days that is just as likely to result in a physical attack.

I was grabbed by a colleague after leaving work one night who tried to kiss me. My father had taught me some basic self defence and I was able to get away. I complained to my employer the next day who after talking to the man told me "it was just a bit of fun". Other men in the office took his side and I was accused of having no sense of humour and even that I must be gay (not the word they used) as I didn't welcome his advances. Only one man supported me, he had a daughter my age, and would walk me to my car every evening after until I left the job.

Having said that, I think the majority of men are as appalled by violence towards women as we are. It is a minority of "men" who attack women - basically because we are usually weaker and they are cowards. Young people, boys and girls, need to be taught that everyone is equal and entitled to respect

It was spoken about here: www.politicshome.com/news/article/jess-phillips-sarah-everard-violence-international-womens-day

I live in a town but the street lighting is so poor I wouldn’t venture out of my house after dark unless in my car even though I have friends who live less than a five minute walk away. I feel sorry for those who can’t afford to run a car.

I'm 64 now and have lived in fear of men most of my life. I was sexually and physically abused as a child then physically abused as a women. It's only in the last couple of years that I feel I can have an opinion without my heart racing with fear (although it still does happen). In my experience a lot of men don't really like women especially strong women but i do realise this opinion stems from my awful experiences with them....

I'm shocked and angry.

I also think twice about going out of my home after dark, and in fact I will drive even stupidly short distances if I have to be somewhere else, rather than walk fearfully. And if someone is walking behind me I am super aware of them and of what they are doing.

I don't think that these thoughts even cross the mind of my male friends and colleagues.

So, I think that enough is enough. I think that men should be subject to a curfew. Unless they have VERY good reason to be out of their homes safer dark, they should stay in and let women learn walk the streets unafraid.

At 17 years old I was walking home , it was about 7pm in April so still a fair of light, in a built up neighbourhood , plenty of houses I passed , I sensed someone was behind me, I walked faster , so di he, I started to run I looked behind he was running too, I made it home, he had chased me to the front door of my house, then decided to run away. , I was ok,
But, nearly 60 years later I have a fear of walking if anyone is behind me ,That incident left me with a picture of him chasing me , Poor Sarah Everard must have been terrified,

Assaults of all kinds against women by men have been going on since time began. Not saying any violence should be condoned, we do though need to look at the numbers of populations and the relationship of the assault to try to figure if the figures are increasing as badly as we think. The media us awful at giving very frightening accounts of incidents before all the facts are established eg the recent victim travel across Clapham Common on her own at night. Later reports didn't mention that. I left a job I loved only because I couldn't put up with the groping, being trapped up against walls by the boss. There are men and women who have this terrible instinct to control and that often means by violence. I have heard mean say they will not sit near a female on public transport in case they are accused of any misdemeanour so men have fears too. Perspective is needed.

She must have been so scared, her parents have just been mentioned on the radio, I couldnt stop thinking about the nightmare that they are living through.

It’s is very frightening. I worry about my daughters always - we can only keep our wits about us. I don’t think it’s wise to walk or run listening to music through ear plugs - you can’t hear anything I think it’s dangerous. Also why are women ‘Killed ‘ they are murdered - it’s a way of desensitising

This is why I spend 10 years doing and teaching karate. It gave me the confidence to walk alone at night. We owned a guest house for many years, if the door bell ever rang at night my husband always let me answer the door,he knew nobody would get the better of me easily.

4allweknow

Assaults of all kinds against women by men have been going on since time began. Not saying any violence should be condoned, we do though need to look at the numbers of populations and the relationship of the assault to try to figure if the figures are increasing as badly as we think. The media us awful at giving very frightening accounts of incidents before all the facts are established eg the recent victim travel across Clapham Common on her own at night. Later reports didn't mention that. I left a job I loved only because I couldn't put up with the groping, being trapped up against walls by the boss. There are men and women who have this terrible instinct to control and that often means by violence. I have heard mean say they will not sit near a female on public transport in case they are accused of any misdemeanour so men have fears too. Perspective is needed.

I think the debate going on now across all forms of media is about much more than physical assaults on women. They are at the end of a spectrum that starts with little girls experiencing a man exposing himself through to young teenagers bring cat called, wolf whistled, having leery comments made to them, to young women jogging or just walking along the street having disgusting comments being shouted at them from a van window, to women commuters being groped and rubbed up against on a train or tube. And that’s before we get to actual range of physical attack.

Men simply have to change their behaviour and good men have to be part of the solution otherwise they are part of the problem. And some women have to appreciate how unacceptable it is that there is much casual sexism that women and especially our younger women experience daily

When my children became teenagers I really worried about them when they started venturing out into the big wide world (I still do): especially my daughter. But I did read at the time that a boy/man was statistically more at risk of being murdered than a girl/woman. But I agree about the article in that we all know the feeling of dread when you hear footsteps behind you at night. I can still remember such instances over 50 years later.

Men and women are both vulnerable to violence but in very different ways.

I have grandsons and granddaughters and I worry about them, but for different reasons. When they are little, both sexes are vulnerable to sexual predators, as the Moors murders proved. However, girls seem to be the victims in most cases. The same applies, when they grow up, to domestic violence. Men can suffer at the hands of abusive partners but the majority of the victims - including approximately one death per week - are women.

It's true that the statistics for the killing of young men are high. The killers are usually other young men, in the stupid conflicts which erupt over nothing when alcohol and bravado are involved. However, I think that the OP is right to suggest that there is a particular fear that women feel.

It's the fear of finding yourself in a lonely place, of hearing footsteps behind you, or seeing a man ahead of you on a dark street and knowing that you have to pass him. It's the fear of being alone with a man in a place where you feel trapped. It's fear based on the knowledge that, although it's rare, women do get abducted, raped and murdered. It is a fear that is fed by fiction which tells that story over and over again. It's a fear that we can't avoid passing on to our daughters and granddaughters, because we want to keep them safe.

I don't underestimate the violence that men endure, usually - but not always - at the hands of other men. However, I doubt that many men experience that fear of possible sexual predators which is common, I would guess, to practically all women. I am even more doubtful that they fear such an attack from the opposite sex.

What worries me as much as losing her life, but the police officer who has been arrested for murder. It would not surprise me in the least if that officer had not been complained about in the past.

The fact is that there is no winning for anyone who makes a complaint against the Thames Valley Police.(I do not know other forces so cannot comment) Each person who complains is put through the mangle and the officers, despite what they said and did, have this blanket of protection around them.

Is it possible for anyone to win a complaint against the police?

I believe from my own experiences that Thames Valley Police defend their officers no matter what. That means that no matter how bad the crime, if they think the perpetrators give an excuse for committing a crime, then they will not arrest them.

I live in fear that my neighbour. That should not happen, but because the police have refused to protect over so many years, the neighbour is getting bolder.

There must be millions of people like me, subjected to hate crime by virtue of discrimination who are left crushed and vulnerable because the police, despite knowing that there is cause to complaint, refuse to investigate their officers.
There must be millions more in this lock down situation who have cried out for help to the police for abuse, threats, vandalism and so on up and down the country, and the probability that some of those perpetrators are police officers being defended by their colleagues.

I don’t think that I have ever taken part in a thread -apart from the lighthearted threads - where so many of us have experienced to a greater or lesser degree, such negative experiences.

Bad isn’t it?

vegansrock

But the fact remains men are the perpetrators in the vast majority of cases - it’s men’s behaviour that needs to be addressed. Not women’s.

Not just in reply to you, but: In essence yes, but any feasible (yet unlikely) solution requires women to change too.

We are the mothers, the one's who are most often directly involved with the social conditioning of our children. We have a responsibility to look at how we bring up our male children. We can't just expect male attitudes to change without our input.

If we just go on listing how awful it is, and it is beyond horrific tbf, and by repeatedly quoting the often misused stat of the 97% we become a much part of the problem of driving this horror into the shadows as men are.

How about we start talking about how women matter on a fundamental level, rather than just constantly finger pointing at men and listing the terrible things some of them have done. Because although 97% of violent crime is perpetrated by men - 97% of men don't perpetrate crime at all. Could we not at the very least think about talking to men about their values re women, rather than just listing the things they do? We have a voice, let's use it for something better than the purpose of just being heard and aim for being understood.

I no longer go out alone walling my dogs - not solely for the fear of being attacked but more for the safety of my dogs with all the cases of dog theft on the streets and in the home.
Sorry if this is not exactly in tune with the original posts, however it is still a real threat to me and my dogs.

Women-only waiting rooms and carriages are loudly decried by feminists Not true - feminists are currently fighting hard to save women-only spaces.

My heart goes out to this poor young woman's relatives.
Rest in peace.

I was attacked twice in 1976 once by a man alone on the way back from a night out and the second time by the same man and two of his friends who happened to be outside a pub when I was walking home after leaving a friend at a bus stop. They followed me for a while as I told them to leave me alone and then dragged me into the woodland behind the flats where I lived. I was only 12 years old. I don’t like walking alone at night anywhere. Even if I am posting orders or going into a shop, I feel nervous on the way to and from my car. It’s not helpful to proclaim that women should be allowed to walk the streets without fear but this is never going to happen because little boys will always be exposed to violence and neglect and prosecutions for rape will remain low. In the meantime all we can do is avoid situations where we could be vulnerable.

Shelagh Fogarty LBC just started - dealing with this issue and especially the wider context. Will be worth listening to I’m sure.

Yes maybe we will have to introduce curfews for men. They will complain but it’s their own fault. Only kidding it’ll never happen. But lots more girls and women will be too scared to go out.