The fear women live with

JaneJudge, thanks for posting your experiences. You’re absolutely right to raise the invisibility of women and girls with learning difficulties. I learned makaton And other methods of communicating during my working life.
Before anyone raises the issue if bots and men with learning difficulties, yes acknowledged. But if a group of older women can’t focus on the OP about women’s fear, it’s a poor do.

Posters insisting men are just as vulnerable to abuse and violence as women are part of the problem. We’re talking about women. Women are abused and killed by men every day. Often in their own homes.

So many people are in denial and jump to defend men. It’s infuriating.

We should all try to be sensible about our personal safety (women, as well as men), but having been twice widowed, I am only too aware that there are many instances where it is impossible to be accompanied. I was living alone at the age of 17 up to the age of 27. Widowed at 41 and still working, there were many instances where I had no choice but to cross dark streets or wait on lonely railway platforms by myself (having been to business meetings, for instance). I have gone on holidays alone, even to East Africa one time. It was either go alone, or don't go on holiday at all. Yes, I know there are holidays for singletons - but I was not wanting to meet someone, and these types of holiday are far more expensive than a "standard" holiday. I had friends, but mostly, they were married with children, and not available to travel with me. I have been mugged when walking to work, in the early morning (around 7.30am) when it was light.
We can only try to assess the risks we have to take, and be aware of our surroundings at all times. Take Self Defence classes to give you confidence, and try not to worry too much (being obviously very nervous could make you more vulnerable).

blue25

Posters insisting men are just as vulnerable to abuse and violence as women are part of the problem. We’re talking about women. Women are abused and killed by men every day. Often in their own homes.

So many people are in denial and jump to defend men. It’s infuriating.

Greeneyed girl said in a recent post, "Until this changes women’s lived experiences will not be taken seriously." perhaps the reason some people "jump in to defend men" is that their experience of the men in their lives is different to yours. They are fortunate as in deed am I. I actually don't see men as the problem, I see them as part of the solution which is why I don't want to alienate them or ignore the fact that they can experience violence and fear too.

^ that is too idealitistic unfortunately

Suziewoozie... I think it's lovely that some men think not to walk close behind us whilst out walking or just out in general, I've often felt nervous when someone is very close behind me, man or woman, my mind goes into overdrive. So thankyou for that remark, it's nice to hear some people do consider us women whilst outside.

Dh is very aware of it when jogging. I think that some men do do what they can but sadly I think that is tinkering around the edges so to speak.

Bluebelle
I agree with you, the mention of 'remains' instead of a body is chilling.

JaneJudge

^ that is too idealitistic unfortunately

Really, please explain. I'm generally not considered "idealistic" "pragmatic" is the description most would use.

It’s sad that people blame the victims- she shouldn’t have been walking etc, since when was walking home at 9 pm a capital,
offence? Women have a curfew. and many in here seem to accept that. Let’s hope women speak up about the abuse they suffer - even girls in their school uniforms are catcalled, propositioned, groped etc. Men who expose themselves, try to force women to talk to them or worse. We’ve all been there and should speak out.

It’s even more dangerous for girls to go jogging since the pandemic started because there are far fewer people around. We’ve had several scary incidences round our way over the past few months.

Men are subject to more violence than women - but it is, in almost all cases, violence perpetrated by other men. So, with a few exceptions, men are the common denominator.

I'm fairly sure most women are wary when they are walking alone at night, but sometimes there is no alternative other than to stay at home or to order an expensive taxi - and even taking a taxi doesn't guarantee safety - look at John Warboys. Anyway, why is it that a woman's actions are so often the focus of so much coverage on issues such as this? It is the abberant behaviour of men which needs to be the focus.

I think women should stick together on this and not say "nothing will ever change, so it's up to women to restrict what they do". It is up to parents and schools to teach their children that boys and girls should treat each other kindly and courteously and that it is certainly not manly to speak to, or of, girls or women in a demeaning way or to use their greater strength to bully and violate them.

I wondered why, when he was at uni, my son said the men always got into a taxi before the girls and he explained to me it was for safety. It would never have crossed my mind the need to do that.

springishere

Two things concern me here. One is the publication of the name and face of the policeman accused, before he has been charged. I thought this was illegal. The other is that Sarah was reportedly "visiting friends". How could she do this? Was she in their bubble? I have not been able to visit friends for over a year.

...that’s your takeaway?

vegansrock

It’s sad that people blame the victims- she shouldn’t have been walking etc, since when was walking home at 9 pm a capital,
offence? Women have a curfew. and many in here seem to accept that. Let’s hope women speak up about the abuse they suffer - even girls in their school uniforms are catcalled, propositioned, groped etc. Men who expose themselves, try to force women to talk to them or worse. We’ve all been there and should speak out.

Have you forgotten the cat calling thread, where those of us who objected, were called to lighten up? Take a compliment? Make the poor men feel good?

Pretty sure the word frigid was used. Certainly we were told to get more confidence to learn to enjoy it!

Even on “grans”net it’s a mans world

When we were young there were not so many cars around. These days everyone has one so you get families with young sons who have a car each. They can assault women and then quickly drive away and/ or drag the woman into the car. Most of the assaults here seem to involve males pulling up in their car rather than just following the females on foot. Just too easy to make a quick getaway. My granddaughter is a nurse who often does night shifts and it has got so bad they started escorting them to their cars. She tells me if they want an escort they have to hang around after their shift and wait so of course they go it alone to the car park where the creeps wait for them. What a world.

I wonder if all those on here who blame the women and defend the men say the same things to their young teenage or younger granddaughters- don’t worry girls if men grope you or leer at you when you’re going to school, don’t worry if the boys in your class look up your skirt or ping your bra straps it’s all good fun. Let’s hope younger women stand up to these attitudes.

Summer love even on gransnet, it’s a mans world

Or we could feel that especially on gransnet, excuses are made for men and criticisms levelled at women and girls.

I wasn't aware anyone was doing that on here vegansrock . I haven't seen blame attached to women nor should it be of course. All men should not be held to account for the actions of a few. I do think men have a role in raising awareness amongst themselves of the effects of some behaviours.

I think the reason women are at more risk of violence from people they know is because they are careful outside their homes. Therefore, the people who actually DO attack them are generally people they know. If women were not so careful, constantly, there would be far more cases of violence by those they don't know.

Springishere
Shame on you that the issue of distancing came to mind when hearing of this poor woman’s death ?
It hadn’t entered my mind until I read your post.

foxie48

I totally agree with this, I worry about my grandsons as much as my grand daughter.

Agree Foxie and about my DH or myself being out at night. It has always been like this. We could be assaulted for our bag/phone whatever, tragically men can be assaulted for the ‘fun of it’ by other men. Can’t see a solution if you need to be out at night on your own for whatever reason.

That's the problem of telling women where and when to walk. There will always be someone who is out at night. What you really mean when you say that is I want this to happen to another woman.

I hate to say it, but I have a feeling that the sort of men who do these things may well change their ‘official’, public attitude, but will carry on much as they feel like where strangers are concerned.

It’s a bit like racism, IMO. We had a couple of friends (both male and no longer with us) who occasionally let slip that they were still racist underneath, but the chill non-response they got from whatever remark they’d made, put the lid on it. It was as if they’d put out a ‘feeler’.
However, if they’d been with more like-minded people....

It’s not only men I know a few women who are racist too, it’s not just that, there are certain stereotypes that act differently. Bikers, in a group can be very intimidating or groups of youths of any race, individually most are not a concern but together they are.
This does influence our altitudes.