The fear women live with

I know three men who have suffered violence. One was beaten and even stabbed on a regular basis for over 30 years by his wife. He was too ashamed to tell anyone. One was my ex who was hit over the head with a piece of wood as he left a pub. The last words he heard before he passed out were, "Sorry mate. We thought you were someone else". The last on was a friend's son who was on a night out. He'd not argued with anyone and was just walking along the street to get a taxi when he was set upon and they beat him so badly that they broke his jaw.

I also know several woman who have been harassed and one, who was raped. It left them traumatised for a long time. However I think that some young women are claiming harassment when it's something so simple (maybe not the right choice of word) that it undermines the severity of the suffering of those who are/have been living in fear or suffering great trauma. One young lady said that she was harassed because when she was running a man on a bicycle rode passed her and, although he didn't say anything, he looked at her. I cycle and I look at joggers of both genders wondering why the hell do they run when walking is better for their joints. Does that make me guilty of sexual harassment?

There are bad people out there and it doesn't matter where you are or what you wear if that person is determined to sexually attack someone then they will. It doesn't matter if the woman is wearing a bikini or a nun's habit. It's nothing to do with sex and everything to do with power. The same goes for violence against men. Some people just want to feel the power of being able to hurt/control someone else.

We shouldn't be making it out as if all men are potential abusers because they're not. Most men are kind, considerate and caring people. Just as most women are kind, considerate and caring people. All people regardless of gender need to be aware but to lay it on men by suggesting curfews etc is unfair and discriminatory. Would you want your DH, DS, DGS to be subject to a curfew?

Yesterday some silly but unpleasant posts appeared on here, and were removed by GNHQ after being reported.
It would be a good idea if the details of the posters, who must have joined Gransnet specifically to cause upset to a predominantly female audience, were notified that their details would automatically be passed on to police; so much investigation is now carried out online.
Harassment generally starts at a low level, 'for a joke'.

A group of regulars in my local pub, who would be described as well educated, pleasant men, were overheard discussing the attributes of their wives, including their performance in bed! When tackled about it they said it was "just a bit of fun". This is the excuse used by many men who harass women and is a sign of the ingrained attitude of a lot of men towards women.

Those men were being disrespectful to their wives and it shows that they hold them in little regard.

Oldwoman70

A group of regulars in my local pub, who would be described as well educated, pleasant men, were overheard discussing the attributes of their wives, including their performance in bed! When tackled about it they said it was "just a bit of fun". This is the excuse used by many men who harass women and is a sign of the ingrained attitude of a lot of men towards women.

I’d tell their wives. And yes I agree - the just a bit of fun excuse masks ingrained attitudes that are linked with a whole raft of issues that explain the way females are routinely treated in our society. It’s not just about murder - if anyone had listened to the various phone in yesterday they would have heard account after account of women’s lives marred/ ruined by sexual abuse/ harassment etc which went often unreported but if reported ignored, not taken seriously or the woman blamed ( even when they were little girls at the time). I wonder quite how small the pool is of men who abuse women - there are plenty of men in pubs doing exactly that when they discuss their wives in such a fashion.

Agreed vampirequeen the person who tackled them was my husband who told them he may not have had the benefit of a university education but he knew that wasn't the way to talk about any woman, never mind their wives.

Oldwoman70

Agreed vampirequeen the person who tackled them was my husband who told them he may not have had the benefit of a university education but he knew that wasn't the way to talk about any woman, never mind their wives.

Wow - you married a good ‘un

I wonder quite how small the pool is of men who abuse women - there are plenty of men in pubs doing exactly that when they discuss their wives in such a fashion.

Some men seem unable to avoid showing off to their mates and thus behaving like pack animals. I wonder how much antisocial and sexist behaviour is down to a juvenile streak in some men. Unfortunately not an insignificant minority, it seems.

Blinko

^I wonder quite how small the pool is of men who abuse women - there are plenty of men in pubs doing exactly that when they discuss their wives in such a fashion.^

Some men seem unable to avoid showing off to their mates and thus behaving like pack animals. I wonder how much antisocial and sexist behaviour is down to a juvenile streak in some men. Unfortunately not an insignificant minority, it seems.

And enabled and facilitated by many others.

The question is, surely, what's to be done about it?

And why should we as women need to be careful what we wear and where we go at certain hours of the day or night, so as not to become the target of these neanderthals?

DH and I were discussing this last night, and we talked about just how rare it was that women actually get attacked in the street by men they don't know. Which is true of course.

But I told him that I never wear shoes that I can't run in, and that when I'm out alone at night I always carry my keys in my hand with one key poking through my fingers. We've been married nearly 40 years and he didn't know.

It may be rare, but we think about it and plan for it all the time.

Alegrias1

DH and I were discussing this last night, and we talked about just how rare it was that women actually get attacked in the street by men they don't know. Which is true of course.

But I told him that I never wear shoes that I can't run in, and that when I'm out alone at night I always carry my keys in my hand with one key poking through my fingers. We've been married nearly 40 years and he didn't know.

It may be rare, but we think about it and plan for it ^all the time.^

I think the conversations with the men in our lives should include ( if they don’t know already) the flashing , the cat calls, the groping, the rubbing up against in crowded places, the leers so many females experience from being little girls. The battle we had to get upskirting treated seriously and not just as a prank.

maybe the country should get some decent street lights , the ones we have are very high off the ground and light up practically nothing .and maybe community poilce could patrol areas up till 11pm ...i actually wouldnt go out after 9pm anyway .not even to my local shops .

Not everybody, women or men, can choose not to go out at night.

BlueSky

Not everybody, women or men, can choose not to go out at night.

And girls going to school being flashed and cat called? Home schooling it is then.

Women going to work? Oh ok Universal Credit it is then.

Silly silly women

A significant minority of young men have a disgusting attitude to women and treat their girlfriends very badly. At the Rugby Club I overheard a group of them discussing girls, apparently one of them had dated a “good looking girl” and had to pay a forfeit.
It really is bad and getting worse, young is up to 30 these days, when they should know better.

Alegrias1
“It may be rare, but we think about it and plan for it all the time.”
That’s right Alegrias even us older ones and not wearing short skirts!

Just a reminder of what awfully nice young men no doubt from awfully nice homes at a top university were doing. Less than two years ago.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uni-freshers-compete-sex-poorest-22652484

Still maybe the poor girls shouldn’t have gone to university

Iam64

Summer love even on gransnet, it’s a mans world

Or we could feel that especially on gransnet, excuses are made for men and criticisms levelled at women and girls.

It’s really fascinating isn’t it.

And often times, those of us who dare to call it out, are told we can’t take a joke, Or that we must learn to lighten up, followed by many pithy jokes

Katie59

A significant minority of young men have a disgusting attitude to women and treat their girlfriends very badly. At the Rugby Club I overheard a group of them discussing girls, apparently one of them had dated a “good looking girl” and had to pay a forfeit.
It really is bad and getting worse, young is up to 30 these days, when they should know better.

....they get these attitudes from their family and those the mix with.

It’s not just younger people.

It’s people saying “oh that’s just how older generations talk” it’s men in pubs denigrating their wives.

It’s women saying that some young women are claiming harassment when it's something so simple So that it gets swept away.

It’s women saying they are fearful for the men in their lives in case a woman might take something the wrong way.

It’s the acceptance of rape culture in our world.

We teach women to be careful instead of teaching men not to rape. “Because, well, a man will do what he wants, won’t he”

People keep making reference to the time but loads of women in low paid work (for example carers) will have to walk home after their shift at 9/10pm or later. I used to be a shift manager at a shop too so would lock up sometimes quite late at night and walk home. We were advised to walk in pairs and to always take a different route incase we had been followed before.

JaneJudge

People keep making reference to the time but loads of women in low paid work (for example carers) will have to walk home after their shift at 9/10pm or later. I used to be a shift manager at a shop too so would lock up sometimes quite late at night and walk home. We were advised to walk in pairs and to always take a different route incase we had been followed before.

Even if the time should be considered relevant ( and that’s a big if) you’re absolutely right about the number of women who have to be out later. I remember when I was teaching evening classes - before the class, I used to go and move my car ( when spaces became available) so it was both under a light snd as near as possible to the door I came out of. I remember one term when there had been reports of someone hanging around in the evenings and security escorted us out . I think a pp mentioned her dd a nurse who had a similar problem. Posters who think women out at night have all chosen so to be must have led very sheltered lives. But anyway, even if they’ve chosen to be out, it’s irrelevant

I know it's irrelevant, you have just reminded me that we had to watched to our cars or onto the works bus when I worked on a motorway services too as there had been a murder some years before. This was 20 odd years ago though

Blinko

The question is, surely, what's to be done about it?

And why should we as women need to be careful what we wear and where we go at certain hours of the day or night, so as not to become the target of these neanderthals?

As to ‘what’s to be done about it’ the only thing that I can think of are social lessons given to secondary school teenage boys and girls ( just boys really, but girls will be in the class too and can say how they feel about it.)
This would never deter the types that murder of course, but for the rest would make them aware of what women often have to put up with, and maybe deter sexual ‘banter’ and very inappropriate chat or behaviour.

As for your second question, the answer is pretty obvious.