A year of Starmer What do you think?

suziewoozie

Casdon

You’re right Grany, the buck does stop with him, thankfully. He’s beginning to feel his feet now in terms of the team that will work, we need to give them six months to bed down and then reassess how it’s going.

The problem is, he’s not given a chance is he? The coverage of the reshuffle is getting beyond ridiculous. I would call it obsessive but it’s a deliberate distraction policy. Meanwhile, theres a raft of serious issues that go unaddressed and mostly unmentioned by the media that are squarely in the Govts court. It will be interesting to see what’s in the Queens Speech tomorrow.

The Queens Speech was likely to have been the reason for the reshuffle. It would always attract some bad press from the mainly right-wing sources so he has done it all at a time when they were already exaggerating the LP position.

It was either now or leave people in their place until the summer break. I do think he has tried to put people in positions that will play to their strengths.

Okay trisher I’ll rise to the challenge - briefly as this isn’t the place to bore. Gordon Brown will be judged a lot less harshly in future than he was at the time, it was Blair who orchestrated the damage to new Labour.

The chance of a new way for the party was seized because the country was sick of the Cameron Government. When voting for Corbyn, people (many of whom were young and idealistic) thought that he was a credible alternative and joined the party, organised rallies etc. without initially understanding that he had been sidelined within the party due to his extreme views on some key issues for good reason. His personal value system was exposed over time, and the voting public, influenced by the media but also by his poor performance at PMQ, and his stance on issues decided that he wasn’t suitable PM material ( neither were his chosen shadow cabinet).

Many of those initially enthusiastic people have now left the party as their views have tempered - but interestingly very few of them have joined the Global Justice movement.

The future of the party has to be more centrist, or it will never be elected again. Party members are the political animals in society, not the public, and the latter are not interested in electing a traditional left wing party. If the party ultimately vote in a left wing Corbyn replacement I think that will be the end, and a new left centrist party will emerge to take the vast majority of the votes that have stayed loyal to Labour. Back to the Whigs maybe?

I think one of the reasons Labour has been so successful in Wales is that the requirement for consensus/coalition over 22 years has resulted in a different Labour model of government, so it’s still recognisably Labour but it’s not a purist model - and a lot has been achieved by listening to the electorate and the professional experts rather than the party members calling the tune.

Thank you for such an interesting explanation Casdon.

Corbyn spent most of his life voting against his own party on many issues that I respected him for. But once he became party leader he wouldn’t tolerate dissent of any kind. I’ve never forgotten Hilary Benn ( who I have great respect for) making a speech in parliament and Corbyn sat next to him with such hatred in his face: it looks could kill Benn would be no more. I think Corbyn lost my emotional support that day but I still voted for him because of the Conservative alternative. The young adored him because he said he would scrap tuition fees. It was as simple as that. He was on such a high from appearing at Glastonbury that he failed to notice he actually lost an election. I’d love a Labour government that has people like Corbyn in it. It doesn’t have to be either or. We all want the same thing, a fairer, more just society. But we’re never going to get it at this rate.

Not all were young and idealistic nothing wrong in being idealistic, young people not fools people could see what they were voting for. We nearly won the election in 2017 I joined the party became a member for the first time because I believed in Corbyn someone honest and decent with strong radical polices that this country needs right now and fully costed, that you could get behind. Who knew what Starmer believes in Prople are still asking what does Keith Starmer believe in what does he want for the Labour Party??? And where is he taking the party to the right by looks of it. At his first speech he said he was a Zionist made a big fuss about antisemitism People knew this was weaponised used against labour does he think people are stupid? Jeremy Corbyn value system is fighting inequality racism something Starmer should be standing up for fighting against. This new right wing Rachel Reeves is anti Semitic she praised Nancy Aster.Now Starmer has all the people who undermined the Corbyn leadership and buried the Forde Report. Not many watch PMQ if they did, would know Jeremy holds the record for government u turns. It has been a disgraceful 14 months where Starmer has done nothing right it seems everything's gone wrong Lost hundreds of councillors and 8 councils including Hartlepool.

I’m afraid I stopped reading what you wrote once you referred to Keir as Keith, that momentum’ish insult that’s being flung around by the far left.

I am not young but I am still idealistic and my idealism leads me to a place where our country becomes (albeit the last European country) to embrace democracy.

That will only happen when we introduce proportional representation and all votes are of equal value.

MayBee70 A TV newsman in an interview called Keir Keith that was funny ? I think a lot of people have picked up on that name. Well he is not on the left like the Keir Hardy he was named after it seems.

Either way it’s a disgrace that people in the Labour Party see fit to ridicule someone who is leader of the party. Makes certain sections of the party look childish imo

I don't think it is 'simple as that' that the young supported Corbyn because of his promise to scrap tuition fees.

Obviously that was/is important to them, but they are not fools. My two were both fans, and yes, they were idealistic, as befits their youth, but they listened to far more than that one promise. My son (the elder of the two) is less enamoured of him now, but my daughter often says that she wishes he were still the leader.

I think that maybe there should be a split. There is clearly a chasm between the right and left of the party, and there is nothing to be gained by one side sniping the other instead of concentrating on what needs to be done.

The LibDems are all but washed up, and historically they took votes from the right of the Labour Party, so there could be room for a joint effort there, leaving the left to offer their agenda to the voters, and neither side would have to temper their message to suit what is considered by others to be electable.

Exactly Doodledog. The young people I know who voted for him were idealistic and hoping for a better country, to remain part of Europe, and for the UK to be a more equal place. They are post university so uni fees were an irrelevance to them.

My daughter like Doodledog's is still a JC supporter. I agree with her sentiments, but have seen governments come and go.

varian

I am not young but I am still idealistic and my idealism leads me to a place where our country becomes (albeit the last European country) to embrace democracy.

That will only happen when we introduce proportional representation and all votes are of equal value.

But it’s even worse than that isn’t it? This corrupt government is going to change the Mayoral voting system to FPTP. I know the supplementary vote system isn’t PR but it’s better than FPTP. There's not a moral or ethical bone in any part of their corrupt bodies and increasingly we are becoming a totalitarian fascist state.

We need Keir Starmer and the Labour Party to wake up and reject our sham democracy before it is too late.

Casdon another great post from you. Interesting POV and well put.

The rumblings inside the Labour Party continue on. Diane Abbott is the gift that keeps on giving to the Tory party. Is she on their payroll?
?

Why on earth a more left leaning approach would appeal to voters in England right now just beggars belief!

Keir Starmer doesn’t come over as authentic. His PMQ’s drone on to the point of boring us into submission.

Andy Burnham is the man of the moment with a whopping 67% of the votes in Manchester. Will he be approached in the next few months to lead the party?

The upcoming by-election in Tracy Brabin’s constituency will be another huge defeat I predict for Keir Starmer. He is a dead man walking.

varian

We need Keir Starmer and the Labour Party to wake up and reject our sham democracy before it is too late.

But they can oppose this latest act of gerrymandering all they want, the vote will be won by the government.

I do object to the constant criticism of the way Keir Starmer talks when the comparison is the bumbling buffoon sitting opposite him in parliament, ruffling his hair and lying constantly. Having said that I have to agree with most of what Urmstongran has said which proves that people can always find things that unite them if they try hard enough. Think I need a lie down now, or a cup of tea. Or a brandy. Or all three.....

UKIP, the EDL, The English Nationalists et all, and the other right wing parties have been absorbed by the Tory Party.

In the meantime the anti- Tories are split between the Labour Party , the Liberal Democrats and the Greens.

If we lived in a democracy the anti-Tories, who are the largest group would be in the majority in parliament and be able to form a progressive coalition government.

As it is in our FPTP sham democracy we continue to be ruled by the will of the right wing minority.

Labour could have had Andy Burnham, who I'm sure would have beaten Theresa May. But with all the free for all voting, Corbyn got in.

I agree that Keir's speeches are rather mind numbing. There's no charisma. He's dull.

Most people are not as passionate about politics as those posting on here. So charisma, eloquence and charm are needed as well as great policies. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it is. A lot of people like Boris. They aren't that bothered about sleaze and wallpaper.

Also if we look back most politicians and PMs have faced criticism for this, that and the other. We don't expect anything less. Maybe we should.

Labour need Andy Burnham. I can't think of anyone else that could pull off the seemingly impossible feat of beating the Conservatives in the near future.

He will appeal to all ages. He does appeal to all ages.

Many young idealistic folk change their political views as they age as well. Something we seem to forget.

Some of us still do want a more left leaning Government, because we want to see an end to foodbanks and "fire and rehire" and other unfair employment practises. We want a leader of the Labour party to want a more equal society and not have to rely on a young footballer to point out what would be a decent thing to do.

Urmstongran I remember you stating that Andy Burnham was unpopular in Greater Manchester. I am glad that you now agree that he is popular. I think he is doing a really good job for us.

If it wasn’t for McCluskey (one of the ones baying fiord Starmers blood) Labour would probably have had David instead of Ed and we’d probably have a Labour Government now.

We do not always abandon idealism as we age. I have felt passionately about the need for electoral reform since I was a teenager. I would love, before I die, to see my country, the last undemocratic country in Europe, become a democracy and embrace PR.

varian

We do not always abandon idealism as we age. I have felt passionately about the need for electoral reform since I was a teenager. I would love, before I die, to see my country, the last undemocratic country in Europe, become a democracy and embrace PR.

Totally agree, varian

Anecdotal of course, but many of my peers from who were very left wing have now embraced the blue. Friends of my AC who also went to Uni have seen similar shifts.

I saw a wonderful woman, Lib Dem, on TV yesterday. No idea who she was I'm afraid. But I was listening and wondered why people like her don't end up in the top job.

Policies are the most important thing. But in today's society we need more.

I'm sure this comment will annoy a lot of people but I can't help thinking that this thread typifies what is going wrong with the Labour party. Lots of discussion about whether Starmer is any good and who might be better (or not), disagreement about where the party should lean, further right and centralist or cling to Corbynism/Momentum, complaints about the Tories but no-one seems to consider why people who could be counted on to support labour, no longer do. You are all solid labour voters, you'll vote labour even if the sky fell in but clearly ATM there are not enough of you to win an election and gain power. Listening to the radio I've heard some ex labour supporters say why they changed to Conservative and tbh it didn't make comfortable listening, in deed some things I heard made me squirm. Brexit, immigration and one woman who said she felt labour was more interested in ethnic minorities than people like her. Not nice tbh but how does the LP deal with this? Batley and Spen looks like a lost cause unless they do!

I agree with you foxie, the only exception being that I would never just vote for a party purely out of loyalty. I would always do what I thought was best for the country and it’s people even if that meant voting Conservative (which I’ve never done).

A significant number of people did actually like Corbyn’s centre-left policies. They are still popular in quite a few places, for example in Liverpool, Preston, Manchester, Oxford, Sandwell.

This is an interesting comparison, it doesn’t exactly show that centre-right views are particularly popular (also the ones that lost elections for Brown and Milliband)

Corbyn’s first 13 months:
Lost 18 councillors
Lost 0 councils
Defeated Cameron in locals - Labour 31% Tories 30%
Held Oldham
Held Sheffield Brightside & Hillsborough
Held Ogmore
Held Batley & Spen

Starmer’s first 13 months:
Lost 322 councillors
Lost 8 councils
Lost Hartlepool

Starmer needs to actually listen to real people, not just small focus groups. With covid restrictions easing then hopefully he can start to do that. He needs to ditch people like Mandelson who is toxic, and stop giving into demands from the likes of the BoD who are not Labour supporters and never will be.