A year of Starmer What do you think?

foxie48

I'm sure this comment will annoy a lot of people but I can't help thinking that this thread typifies what is going wrong with the Labour party. Lots of discussion about whether Starmer is any good and who might be better (or not), disagreement about where the party should lean, further right and centralist or cling to Corbynism/Momentum, complaints about the Tories but no-one seems to consider why people who could be counted on to support labour, no longer do. You are all solid labour voters, you'll vote labour even if the sky fell in but clearly ATM there are not enough of you to win an election and gain power. Listening to the radio I've heard some ex labour supporters say why they changed to Conservative and tbh it didn't make comfortable listening, in deed some things I heard made me squirm. Brexit, immigration and one woman who said she felt labour was more interested in ethnic minorities than people like her. Not nice tbh but how does the LP deal with this? Batley and Spen looks like a lost cause unless they do!

Actually I have voted for parties other than the Labour Party foxie48. With many others I voted Lib Dem after Tony Blair moved Labour further to the right than they were and crowned it all by taking us into an ilegal war. So it doesn't take the sky falling in to change me. And if Starmer has his way I may change again. It will possibly have to be Green this time.

Brexit is a done deal and I think it would help matters if the present leadership actually made much more effort to show they agree with this decision and moved the debate on to how to create trade deals and prosperity.

foxie the upcoming Batley & Spen by-election will be telling.

Some of us still do want a more left leaning Government, because we want to see an end to foodbanks and "fire and rehire" and other unfair employment practises. We want a leader of the Labour party to want a more equal society and not have to rely on a young footballer to point out what would be a decent thing to do.

The ridiculous thing is that I think that Starmer would want this too. The problem is how to convince people that he's not the red tory depicted by the Corbynites, and to set out a strategy to achieve it.

This blog is really interesting

chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2021/05/labour-and-post-brexit-politics.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FrznWQ+%28The+Brexit+Blog%29

I also heard those people on the radio from Batley. I suppose with those sort of views they are more likely to support the Conservatives and perhaps that is where they will stay.

Disappointed.

Apparently, the Tories are to build, build, build. Thatcher knew that if you give someone the right to buy you have a Tory voter. The Tories keep winning because they are seem to be for the aspirational; Labour has no appeal for people who want to get on.

The ridiculous thing is that I think that Starmer would want this too. The problem is how to convince people that he's not the red tory depicted by the Corbynites, and to set out a strategy to achieve it.
He could start by appointing a few left wingers to his cabinet, reinstating the investigation into the shenanigans in the 2017 election, oh and trying to actually encourage MPs to vote for human rights, not imposing the whip so they can't.

Our Local District Council has 82 Liberal Democrats, 14 Conservatives, 5 Independents and 1 Green Councillor.

What Labour Party???

Labour has no appeal for people who want to get on.

That's ridiculous. The Labour movement has always been aspirational. What about Blair and 'Education, Education, Education'? Labour might have rejected Blair, but they haven't rejected principles like that.

Thatcher knew that if you give someone the right to buy you have a Tory voter.
Arguably that sums up the selfishness and short-sightedness of a lot of voters. The sale of council houses, (which had been built with money from taxpayers) made a quick buck for a few people and left generations after them vulnerably housed or unable to afford to buy. There is no reason why they should not have been sold at market value and the money put back into building new ones. It was probably the most cynical of appeals to greed in the history of politics.

MaizieD

^Some of us still do want a more left leaning Government, because we want to see an end to foodbanks and "fire and rehire" and other unfair employment practises. We want a leader of the Labour party to want a more equal society and not have to rely on a young footballer to point out what would be a decent thing to do.^

The ridiculous thing is that I think that Starmer would want this too. The problem is how to convince people that he's not the red tory depicted by the Corbynites, and to set out a strategy to achieve it.

This blog is really interesting

chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2021/05/labour-and-post-brexit-politics.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FrznWQ+%28The+Brexit+Blog%29

I think he would too and it has to be good for all of us to try not to construct an underclass.

All West Yorkshire Councils remained Labour and we now have a Labour Mayor in Tracy Brabin in West Yorkshire. With the four Labour Mayors in the north life could get interesting.

Boz

Apparently, the Tories are to build, build, build. Thatcher knew that if you give someone the right to buy you have a Tory voter. The Tories keep winning because they are seem to be for the aspirational; Labour has no appeal for people who want to get on.

Aren’t they planning to build on flood plains etc?

MaizieD

^Labour has no appeal for people who want to get on.^

That's ridiculous. The Labour movement has always been aspirational. What about Blair and 'Education, Education, Education'? Labour might have rejected Blair, but they haven't rejected principles like that.

Absolutely. The whole basis of bettering yourself is to start with a good education.

What worries me is that Johnson is showing that the thing to do is not to bother about working or contributing to society, but to fiddle your tax, get a leg up from your mates, swindle someone else into paying for your nanny or your Caribbean holiday, and taking your mistress on state-sponsored jollies.

Why should 'ordinary people' feel the need to slog away doing their best when the leader of the country is behaving like this?

Because many ‘ordinary prople’ have principles , morals and
self respect

The Labour movement has always been aspirational. What about Blair and 'Education, Education, Education'?

Hahaha!
Nothing at all to do with massaging the unemployment figures under Labour then? “Labours Not Working’. Remember that slogan MaizieD? I do.

Blair wanted as many students in uni as possible. Taking an ‘ology’ that often was not vocational, led nowhere and to nothing and kept the students off the unemployment figures. So many kids taking a medja studies course, believing they’d be working for the BBC in some capacity, only to end up working in a supermarket or a nail bar ...

Labour interested in giving children a good education?
Why then have they been so determined to close grammar schools ?

The Labour party is not aspirational. It seems to positively want to keep people dependent on welfare.
Their core voters?

Urmstongran

^The Labour movement has always been aspirational. What about Blair and 'Education, Education, Education'?^

Hahaha!
Nothing at all to do with massaging the unemployment figures under Labour then? “Labours Not Working’. Remember that slogan MaizieD? I do.

Blair wanted as many students in uni as possible. Taking an ‘ology’ that often was not vocational, led nowhere and to nothing and kept the students off the unemployment figures. So many kids taking a medja studies course, believing they’d be working for the BBC in some capacity, only to end up working in a supermarket or a nail bar ...

That phrase was used in the 1970s. Actually Labour isn't working- But in fact unemployment rose under the Tories- Highest 1984 and fell under a Blair government. Since the Tories came back it has been rising again and yet they inherited Blair's university policy!

Labour interested in giving children a good education?
Why then have they been so determined to close grammar schools ?

erm....equality of opportunity??

"Welfare" is a US term increasingly used here to isolate and scapegoat people who are on benefits.

I’ll never forget the Thatcher years when we were terrified every week that my husband would be made redundant. Remember ‘get on your bike’. I used to cry and say I didn’t want to move to another part of the country and uproot my children. As for university degrees I do agree that some degrees seemed a waste of time but there’s more to university than just learning. When I was at grammar school in the 60’s even though I did very well academically no one ever told me I could go to university and, coming from an incredibly poor family I just left at 16. During the Blair years my daughter went into teaching and she said was a joy but she gave up a few years ago dispirited by the class sizes and lack of funding.

“Labours Not Working’. Remember that slogan MaizieD? I do.

So do I, Ug. And Thatcher promptly shut down our heavy industries and added another two million to the unemployed register.

the official definition in the UK is the percentage of people aged 16-64 (meaning most working-age people) who do paid work for at least an hour per week.

fullfact.org/economy/employment-since-2010-definition/

This is the definition that has been used for at least the last decade. By tory governments.

Do you call one hour a week 'employment'? I think you might have felt the pinch if you were one of the people counted as 'employed' under that definition.

During the Thatcher years the government was condenmed by the Royal Statistical Society for having redefined unemploment 19 times!

Starmer has a lack of vision

Also the lowest approval ratings. Yougov

m.youtube.com/watch?v=0cvrOTJHsOU

The Beginning of the End of Labour? | Liam Young

m.youtube.com/watch?v=F5FaAFM9_MA

Well, I understand that Keir will be touring the country this summer to tell people what his vision is. So I, for one will go along to hear him if I can. Most political time is taken up with brexit (yes, there are still things to be ironed out), Independence for Scotland and the pandemic (yes, it hasn’t actually gone away) the latter of which he has worked with the government because it’s what’s best for the country. Can anyone tell me what Johnsons vision is other than levelling up which is an empty phrase and I’ll be interested to see if anything happens about that in the coming years. Oh, and social care which seems to have been brushed under the carpet with along with safe cladding on housing.

Grany

Starmer has a lack of vision

Also the lowest approval ratings. Yougov

m.youtube.com/watch?v=0cvrOTJHsOU

The Beginning of the End of Labour? | Liam Young

m.youtube.com/watch?v=F5FaAFM9_MA

What is Johnson's vision. Every single bit so far has been a lie.