A year of Starmer What do you think?

I don't think you can defeat a party in government by accusing them of not having policies or a vision if you haven't either yourself. What Johnson wants/does is irrelevant.

MaizieD

^Labour has no appeal for people who want to get on.^

That's ridiculous. The Labour movement has always been aspirational. What about Blair and 'Education, Education, Education'? Labour might have rejected Blair, but they haven't rejected principles like that.

In my experience MaizieD is correct in that this is many people’s perceptions. Both my parents were from large working class families and we also lived in working class areas when I was growing up. Most of my parents’ siblings and their children equated voting Tory with going up in the world, my friend and her husband are both from Hartlepool and they say the same thing about their families who still live there. Thatcher’s right to buy policy reinforced this and how you change this attitude is a big problem. Starmer hasn’t really got the message across about what their policies are and how they will benefit voters in the red wall constituencies. Certainly passing the buck to your deputy and then having a spat with her isn’t helpful at all. I don’t often agree with Tony Blair but he has said today that without change the Labour party will die.

Disappointing

How can the Labour Party change ? Always has been and always
will be the far left v centre left

Not Blair again. The man who successfully managed to con the whole Labour movement, won two elections then scuppered the party, took us into an illegal war, made his fortune and left. He was as Margaret Thatcher remarked her greatest legacy. He's the reason we now have no social housing (he could have built some), privatised education (academy schools) and the NHS up for grabs. Not forgetting the millions of people who died because of him and are still dying. I sometimes wonder how he dare say anything. He's never accepted responsibility for his actions.

Is it just a simple fact that there is no appetite in this country any more for a Left wing party, or at least not in sufficient numbers to lead them to victory?

It seemed a straightforward problem at first didn’t it- get rid of Corbyn and his unpopular far Left policies, but he’s gone yet Labour is still struggling to engage with their core voters, who, as we have seen with the recent elections, are turning to the Conservatives.

Maybe it’s simply the end of the road for traditional Socialism, but we need an effective opposition to hold the government to account.

What’s the answer? I don’t know.
The Lib Dems are also a spent force, and I suspect many people would struggle to name the leader

JenniferEccles

Is it just a simple fact that there is no appetite in this country any more for a Left wing party, or at least not in sufficient numbers to lead them to victory?

It seemed a straightforward problem at first didn’t it- get rid of Corbyn and his unpopular far Left policies, but he’s gone yet Labour is still struggling to engage with their core voters, who, as we have seen with the recent elections, are turning to the Conservatives.

Maybe it’s simply the end of the road for traditional Socialism, but we need an effective opposition to hold the government to account.

What’s the answer? I don’t know.
The Lib Dems are also a spent force, and I suspect many people would struggle to name the leader

That is a bit of a simplistic assumption I think

Brexit and vaccine would have made up the bulk of the vote. Imo

I would not call a party that got 17% of the vote a spent force.

trisher Wed 12-May-21 14:07:20

Not Blair again. Why not Blair? It seems Johnson finds him and how he governed very interesting. Even setting up a No.10 Delivery Unit on the lines of Tony Blairs.

trisher Blair won 3 elections, 3 consecutive elections.

Anniebach

trisher Blair won 3 elections, 3 consecutive elections.

So he did Annie by promising much he failed to deliver and using socialism to gain power. He then did all the things in my earlier post. Is winning any use if all you do is seed the ground so the Tories can reap the benefit?
Where are the council houses he could have built?
Where is the legislation needed to protect the Trade Union movement and so limit the use of Zero hours contracts?
It's always struck me as very Newsspeak to begin a war in the Middle East and then become a Middle East Peace Envoy

trisher you quote Thatcher, can we assume you believed every thing she said ?

Blair won three elections and by the end of his reign New Labour had morphed into the Tory Party. You couldn't put a sheet of Bronco between them. I was never convinced of his belief in socialism and his legacy is a Labour party that has never recovered its purpose under any subsequent leader. I think Starmer is an honest man but he has not chance of thriving in the current ' nobody gives a monkey's' climate.

Blair’s legacy was Corbyn ?

Blair had to court Murdock get him to write good things about him and Labour' Blair even became godfather to Murdocks children.

For writing favourable things in his newspapers Murdock wanted access to government and became a frequent visitor to number 10 he wanted favours pay back.

What a way to run a democracy with Murdock having all the say. Is there no other way to get into power?

For instance not being bought and paid for.

What about the Levason 2 enquiry that was abandoned.

In 2018

The culture secretary, Matt Hancock, confirmed that the government would drop plans for the second phase of the Leveson inquiry into press standards launched in the wake of the phone-hacking scandal

MaizieD Thank you so much for that link to Chris Grey. I found it very interesting and it pretty much chimes with my own thoughts.

Anniebach

Because many ‘ordinary prople’ have principles , morals and
self respect

Well, yes. But that doesn't explain why they continue to vote for someone who so blatantly does not.

Not all the ordinary people voted for him, unless you think the
Welsh and Scots are not ordinary people

Anniebach

trisher you quote Thatcher, can we assume you believed every thing she said ?

I think Mrs Thatcher had great ability and determination. I don't believe everything any politician says.

I have a vision- that a divided Labour, which due to First Past the Post, means Tories again, and again.

If the 'left' of Labour cannot see that - then I truly give up.

Anniebach

trisher Blair won 3 elections, 3 consecutive elections.

Exactly Annie.

PippaZ

Anniebach

trisher Blair won 3 elections, 3 consecutive elections.

Exactly Annie.

And what would you say is the legacy of those victories?
Social housing - No!
Better schools-No! (just a system the Tories used to remove schools from local control)
Better working conditions- No! (Just a gig economy that exploits the workforce and is reintroducing conditions not seen since the 1930s.)
But feel free to tell me how good he was.If you can find anything.

trisher

I don't think you can defeat a party in government by accusing them of not having policies or a vision if you haven't either yourself. What Johnson wants/does is irrelevant.

Have you read what you have written trisher. It seems to have a very long-distance relationship with logic.

Who needs to have policies and a vision? And your answer is the Leader of the Opposition. I despair

Anniebach

Not all the ordinary people voted for him, unless you think the
Welsh and Scots are not ordinary people

I'm sorry, but I'm a bit lost in this conversation?.

I've reread it.but I'm not sure what my wondering why people who have principles vote for Johnson has to do with the Welsh and Scots being ordinary.

It has a very logical basis PippaZ although I accept that you may find logic hard to grasp.
Johnson may have policies and a vision. It doesn't matter. Because if Starmer and the LP have neither they cannot oppose any proposals or offer an alternative solution to any legislation.
This is a thread about Starmer you know and not Johnson.