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They don’t help themselves do they?

(400 Posts)
suziewoozie Mon 12-Apr-21 10:52:14

I can hardly believe I’m going to post this but does anyone else find it hard to believe that Harry and Andrew who actually saw active service for Queen and country are to wear suits for the funeral rather than uniform? I understand why this decision has been made and I think it stinks quite frankly - designed to humlitate. I don’t know why they’re not wearing sackcloth and ashes actually - petty, vindictive, what a lovely family they are.

vegansrock Mon 12-Apr-21 17:32:56

The RF are colonels in chiefs , Admirals, wing commanders or whatever of the military so obviously are top dogs military wise, so they obviously invented the protocols over the years together with those military who actually run the regiments and so on. You can’t really separate the two.

Katek Mon 12-Apr-21 17:40:55

Protocol would dictate that Boris most likely would have been on the ‘guest list’ to represent the government, and possibly also Starmer for the opposition. We will never know for sure but could people just stop jumping on the ‘he’s a liar’ bandwagon at every opportunity? And no, I’m not a Boris super fan.

Judy54 Mon 12-Apr-21 17:44:31

Thank you Alegrias1 for your point of view.

Bossyrossy Mon 12-Apr-21 17:48:39

What a strange thing to get your knickers in a twist about. It’s a family funeral not a state occasion.

EllanVannin Mon 12-Apr-21 17:52:53

And in a cobbled hearse, courtesy of the Duke himself who designed this off the wall funeral car which was his wish. Well done to him.

suziewoozie Mon 12-Apr-21 17:56:40

Katek

Protocol would dictate that Boris most likely would have been on the ‘guest list’ to represent the government, and possibly also Starmer for the opposition. We will never know for sure but could people just stop jumping on the ‘he’s a liar’ bandwagon at every opportunity? And no, I’m not a Boris super fan.

But he is a compulsive liar - he lies, lies and lies. There’s never been a PMQ when he hasn’t lied and there’s plenty of other examples. I bet he was told ‘ no way sunshine’ but in a very protocol correct way which was the spun in their usual fashion by no 10 into his heroic stance.

suziewoozie Mon 12-Apr-21 17:57:51

Bossyrossy

What a strange thing to get your knickers in a twist about. It’s a family funeral not a state occasion.

It’s not a family funeral - it’s a ceremonial funeral. Trust me, I’m a Republican and we tend to know our facts?

Bodach Mon 12-Apr-21 17:57:55

Whitewavemark2

The uniform would carry “retired” it is a perfectly normal thing in the military world.

No it's not. You are confusing two different things. When an officer retires from the Armed Forces, under normal circumstances he or she is permitted to retain the rank they held on the date of their retirement, and is advised not to dispose of all their dress uniform, in case (for example) of a recall to duty. They are issued with a set of instructions detailing specific "Occasions when uniform may be worn", and "Occasions when uniform may not be worn". Retired officers above a certain rank (it used to be Captain RN/Colonel/Group Captain) are allowed to wear uniform at their own discretion. When a retired officer wears uniform, there is nothing whatsoever on that uniform to indicate that the wearer is retired: no badge; no embroidery; no placard worn around the neck..
The "retired" bit relates not to the uniform, but to the individual's post-nominals. Thus, a retired RAF officer might have a letterhead saying, "Air Commodore P Prune, AFC, RAF (rtd) - where the (rtd) indicates that P Prune is no longer serving. I understand, however, that this may be changing, and that retired officers will be under no obligation to use the (rtd) addition to their post nominals.
When wearing uniform, wearing one's medals depends on the occasion, and is generally specified by the sponsor of the event, or (lacking that) is a matter for the officer's own experience and judgement. Out of uniform, the wearing of medals is a matter entirely for the individual's own taste and judgement.

Greyduster Mon 12-Apr-21 18:58:10

As commissioned officers buy their own uniforms and ceremonial swords, they are allowed to keep them. As Bodach says, there are regulations surrounding when it may be worn. If called up for reserve service, they will be required to wear it again. Non commissioned ranks hand all items of uniform back When they leave but are allowed to keep a beret and a badge which may be worn on Remembrance Sunday along with medals. Senior NCOs are required to purchase mess kit (regimental evening dress) but once they leave the service it will not usually be worn again and it’s not uncommon to sell it on to a new mess member.

maddyone Mon 12-Apr-21 19:12:42

I had understood that Boris was going to be invited so wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that he was lying. It would be completely normal to at least invite the Prime Minister of the day, and in none Covid times, a representative from all the political parties would be invited I expect.
But we’re not in normal times.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 12-Apr-21 19:12:47

I stand corrected, and thank you for the interesting information.

varian Mon 12-Apr-21 19:15:22

At a family funeral, family wear modest funeral attire, not uniforms.

maddyone Mon 12-Apr-21 19:16:41

Whether or not Boris Johnson was invited isn’t a fact, it’s an opinion.

maddyone Mon 12-Apr-21 19:17:13

suzie is correct, it’s a ceremonial funeral.

suziewoozie Mon 12-Apr-21 23:03:33

Bodach thanks for your very informative post. Is it correct to conclude from that that Harry and Andrew were not senior enough to continue to wear their uniforms ( if they wanted to)?

Bodach Mon 12-Apr-21 23:09:08

varian

At a family funeral, family wear modest funeral attire, not uniforms.

Unless the deceased has served in the Armed Forces, and serving or retired family members wish to reflect and honour that aspect of the deceased's life.

vegansrock Tue 13-Apr-21 07:18:54

So some of them may wear uniforms if they want and their mum says so, but some can’t , even if they wanted to. Clear as mud. Perhaps the professional royal watchers could clarify.,

dragonfly46 Tue 13-Apr-21 07:35:34

Who cares this is just another excuse for the OP to have a pop at the Royals and tell us how wonderful H & M are.
I respect other people’s opinions but this was unnecessary.

suziewoozie Tue 13-Apr-21 07:42:50

dragonfly46

Who cares this is just another excuse for the OP to have a pop at the Royals and tell us how wonderful H & M are.
I respect other people’s opinions but this was unnecessary.

Another personal attack and as usual completely inaccurate. It’s getting rather tedious and boring. And rather repetitive.

Ellianne Tue 13-Apr-21 07:44:30

Look on the bright side. There's always the opportunity to compare the two princes' tributes to the DofE today! grin
I'm off out.

vegansrock Tue 13-Apr-21 07:46:09

Well Harry’s was very personal - I’m sure some would criticise that.

dragonfly46 Tue 13-Apr-21 07:47:13

Exactly it is getting rather tedious and boring and rather repetitive so give it a rest!

suziewoozie Tue 13-Apr-21 08:42:30

dragonfly46

Exactly it is getting rather tedious and boring and rather repetitive so give it a rest!

Here come the thread police again. ‘Ello, ‘Ello ‘Ello. You honestly don’t have to keep coming back to these threads if you don’t want to you know.

Greta Tue 13-Apr-21 08:50:10

Whether or not Boris Johnson was invited isn’t a fact, it’s an opinion.

How can it be an opinion? He was either invited or he wasn't. It has been reported that he declined the invitation. An actual, factual invitation? Or more spin and lies to make his claim come across as a noble gesture. 'Noble' is not in his vocabulary. The problem with people like Boris Johnson is that you cannot believe a word he says.

Ellianne Tue 13-Apr-21 08:53:43

sw who is the thread police? Not me, I have only made one very unopinionated comment here.

However, I have experienced nasty pile ons myself in the past, so if you are upset I can offer this advice. Life is too short to worry. Move on. That's why we are trying to lighten things up.

Right I'm off to play Vera and investigate a few crimes with my sniffer hound down by the river. Actually, come to think about it, she has a Land Rover too, doesn't she?