X R rebellion at Canary Wharf this morning

The issue is not that of valuing property over people, or the financial cost of repairing the damage, but the environmental cost of extra production that will be required.
The issue of lithium for battery powered vehicles, phones etc is a huge one involving much child slave labour and criminal activity, mostly in central Africa, but seems to largely ignored in the charge for electric vehicles.
Unintended consequences, but real ones.

Greta Thunberg? Who? Never heard of them, obviously hasn't caused enough criminal damage thus far

GrannyGravy13

Mining for lithium which is used in batteries which power phones, tablets, laptops and electric vehicles is destroying areas of South America and Tibet. Killing all surrounding wildlife and polluting rivers and water courses.

This is what the search for alternative to fossil fuels is doing to the world. Many articles on line for those who want to
see for themselves.

The proposals are to start mining the sea bed.

I don't agree with wanton destruction as a means of drawing attention to other destruction.
There must be other ways. I'm not sure that those at the forefront eg Greta Thunberg, David Attenborough etc would think that is the way forward either.

www.greenpeace.org/international/publication/45835/deep-sea-mining-exploitation/#:~:text=Scientists%20warn%20that%20deep%20sea,the%20climate%20emergency%20even%20worse.

Most are commenting on the behaviour of others though. There would be no politics threads for example. Mmm I may not be selling my point well here

Galaxy

Yes every pretty much every thread on GN would need to be pulled if that's the maxim we have to follow. In fact the whole of the internet would have to cease. Maybe not a bad thing.

I don't think all the threads would be pulled Galaxy Some are really helpful and some occasionally educational.

GrannyGravy13

^It’s such a waste of our energy just to shout into the wind which is all many of those, who just sit and clack their needles while gossiping about what others achieve^

What do you suggest PippaZ ?

I put a suggestion in my post but really, if you are concerned, you do what you can. I'm not too sure what the unconcerned would do other than slate the concerned. They won't get it all right but they are at least trying.

In answer to the question "What do you do Granny?" I can only say it will never be enough, sadly and hope others can turn this round.

Mining for lithium which is used in batteries which power phones, tablets, laptops and electric vehicles is destroying areas of South America and Tibet. Killing all surrounding wildlife and polluting rivers and water courses.

This is what the search for alternative to fossil fuels is doing to the world. Many articles on line for those who want to
see for themselves.

Yes every pretty much every thread on GN would need to be pulled if that's the maxim we have to follow. In fact the whole of the internet would have to cease. Maybe not a bad thing.

It’s such a waste of our energy just to shout into the wind which is all many of those, who just sit and clack their needles while gossiping about what others achieve

What do you suggest PippaZ ?

If you are concerned about how much this is costing, have you any idea what climate change has cost the world to date? And I’m not talking about the cost to the environment.

It's not gossiping though is it , its holding a different point of view.

The issue of climate change will remain in the news due to the new president in the White House - Joe Biden is today hosting a World Climate summit.

No need for smashing of bank windows.

Imagine being a cleaner or security guard there when windows are being smashed - the only staff likely to be around at that time of the morning. The fat-cat bankers are comfortably working from home.

I was reminded of the suffragettes as well Whitewavemark2 It seems to me to be absolutely appropriate.
As for all the -I'm doing my bit, why are they causing damage? Even if ever single person on GN was to make themselves carbon neutral by 'doing their bit' it wouldn't compensate for the huge damage and destruction being done by big business.
It seems that the suffragettes were right, only now it's not just men who value property over people, it's most of us.

In all developing countries as capitalism progresses the rate of absolute poverty decreases. This does not mean that hideous inequality doesnt exist.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting GrannyGravy. Would they be able to, for instance, protest in China or Russia? If not it's pretty useless to suggest it. I imagine people are protesting in Germany.

Why would they not want to make their government stop talking and do something?

The problem with each extreme of views is that some spend more time arguing against the other rather than achieving something. Perhaps we should have a thread called "Climate Change. What did you do to help overcome it on Earth Day?"

It's such a waste of our energy just to shout into the wind which is all many of those, who just sit and clack their needles while gossiping about what others do, achieve.

Shareholders are putting pressure onto HSBC to cut the funding of fossil fuels.

Look how the protest has caught your attention.

At the very least you may be giving the issue some thought, even if your conclusion is skewed.

Can you explain how capitalism has lifted women and girls out of poverty, Galaxy?

It may be a very first world problem, but in the UK it looks more as though capitalism has kept them in poverty with very low paid employment. Perhaps it's different in the third world...

It does seem very at odds with the stated aim to actually cause more environmental damage and an increase in carbon output. I think some just enjoy the power trip of doing the damage to the "baddies" and blow the environmental impact. We had that with the ancient polluting fire engine with the dyed water a couple of years or so ago. Thousands of gallons of precious water wasted, London's air polluted, plus clean up costs because a certain faction wanted to make the protest their way with no regard to the environment at all. If I wanted to protest food and water poverty would it be a good idea to destroy a mass of edible food while pouring gallons of drinking water down the drain? They can protest against HSBC without causing criminal damage that will incur a carbon footprint to repair.

It's quite complex though isnt it WW capitalism of which HSBC are a part, has contributed to the lifting out of poverty of women and girls. I distrust those who think there are simple answers to highly complex problems.

Whitewavemark2

Reason for women at HSBC

Women and girls are bearing the full brunt of climate change in poor countries in regard to food shortage, health, water shortage and sanitation as well as usually the last to be rescued in an emergency such as flooding.

Reason for targeting HSBC.

Fossil files and their use will destroy this planet. HSBC has financed the use of fossil fuel with £80 billion since the Paris agreement.

Maybe they should go and protest in China, Russia or even Germany who continue to advance their use of fossil fuels?

Of course they will not, it’s much easier to target a faceless organisation, no thought for the safety of people working in the building.

Smileless2012

IMO it is "just wanton criminal damage" GrannyGravy and I hope those responsible are identified and charged.

Well it could be seen as "wanton criminal damage" or it could be that the other half of opinion on this see it as a way to try and make people realise just how slowly we are taking the end of our planet as we know it.

There are two sides to anything you give your opinion on.

The protest at HSBC is very coherent.

And there is a debate about a range of protests, outrage and stonewall spring to mind. We probably needed them both. However I understood what those groups were fighting for, they were coherent, it's the lack of coherence that worries me. I had no issue with most of the actions taken by Greenpeace for example, but the aims and strategy were clear.

Reason for women at HSBC

Women and girls are bearing the full brunt of climate change in poor countries in regard to food shortage, health, water shortage and sanitation as well as usually the last to be rescued in an emergency such as flooding.

Reason for targeting HSBC.

Fossil files and their use will destroy this planet. HSBC has financed the use of fossil fuel with £80 billion since the Paris agreement.

Alexa

Granny Gravy wrote:

"I and my family and friends do our bit but watching scenes like this morning make me really cross."

But people like us would not have sat up and paid attention unless active rebels did some flamboyant actions to get publicity.

Flamboyant actions? Hardly, their actions of wanton destruction have a substantial carbon footprint, the very thing that they are protesting about.

I get my information on climate from scientists and established organisations, XR are nothing more than vandals in my opinion.