Mr Johnson and Mr Cummings

But it’s either a free market or communism.

So where does Finland come in your very short chart Urmstongran? It is, as our country is supposed to be, a parliamentary representative democracy. Finnish women became the first in the world to have unrestricted rights both to vote and to run for public office, so well ahead of this country.

It has no private schools. Every academic institution in the country is funded through the public purse. Teachers are trained to issue their own tests instead of standardised tests. Teachers aren't underpaid in Finland and have repeated success in national education rankings.

Finland has been ranked as one of the happiest and most successful countries in the world, and most recently was ranked as the number one country for higher education by The Economist.22 Jul 2019

THIS, thanks.

Finland has twice the number of suicides as nearby Sweden or any EU country, and a high alcoholic rate as well.
Happiest country? I think not.

Could you point to some data on that please Lemongrove - and the date it comes from.

Oh, and knowing why it relates to the fact that they are a democratic country with no fee paying schools would help too.

Just flinging in a old trope does not impress nor does it help belief in any other argument you might put forward.

So how come the Labour Party politicians aren’t holding out for the Finnish example as opposed to sending their own kids to ‘select’ comprehensive/grammar schools?

Oh yes, “we all want to do the best for our kids and don’t feel they should ‘suffer’ for our political beliefs” ? but everyone else’s children can!

blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/finland-is-the-happiest-country-in-the-world-and-finns-arent-happy-about-it/

Suicide rates in Finland are half what they were in 1990s…but they remain well above the European average
www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190924-being-depressed-in-the-worlds-happiest-country

2019

What is happiness and how is it rated?

PippaZ

I think that's because there is meandering and building a damn and re-routing Urmstongran

?? PippaZ!

Because they have to live with the system they have. The Finns aren't hung up on the snobbery of private education.

In any case, I don't agree that all comprehensive schools are bad. I tutor pupils from comprehensive, grammar and private schools and I can see for myself what's behind the surface in some of them.

The problem is that once one school in an area starts operating selective an intake, it's difficult to stop the rot.

Pantglas2

So how come the Labour Party politicians aren’t holding out for the Finnish example as opposed to sending their own kids to ‘select’ comprehensive/grammar schools?

Oh yes, “we all want to do the best for our kids and don’t feel they should ‘suffer’ for our political beliefs” ? but everyone else’s children can!

That is a weird answer to your own question Pantglas2. Is it time for bed?

What is happiness and how is it rated?

A good question Calli.
In my case, learning to accept and love what I have.
There is no other.

What's all this got to do with Johnson and Cummings anyway? Surely it's not yet another deflection from an important issue.

So how come the Labour Party politicians aren’t holding out for the Finnish example as opposed to sending their own kids to ‘select’ comprehensive/grammar schools?

It may have escaped your notice, Pantglas, but Labour doesn't happen to be in power at the moment. They haven't been for 10 years. So there really isn't much they can do in that respect.

When they were in power they did put more money into education and forwarded projects such as academisation. Which wasn't the travesty that Gove turned it into, but was an initiative to put money and expertise into failing schools to improve them. But, as the tories have been in power for 29 of the last 42 years I think that perhaps they need to take some responsibility...

Urmstongran

^What is happiness and how is it rated?^

A good question Calli.
In my case, learning to accept and love what I have.
There is no other.

Would you feel the same if you were impoverished and lived in a slum? Are people supposed not to want any more?

It is indeed growstuff.
It’s late.
We’ve picked over the sleaze accusations and probably because, as yet, there’s nothing newsworthy to substantiate them, we’re meandering in the meantime.

I’ve made my Horlicks. I bid you all a goodnight.
Maybe tomorrow will shine some light on the topic?
Until then. ?

growstuff

What's all this got to do with Johnson and Cummings anyway? Surely it's not yet another deflection from an important issue.

It doesn't take much to deflect!

My comment about Rishi was actually pertinent to the topic as it was part of speculation about Murdoch driving the current 'scandal' agenda to oust Johnson and put his chosen candidate in place. Unfortunately, it took us down irrelevant byways.

I'm wondering what tomorrow will disclose... Perhaps that audio will come to light...

Sadly, I think this is a longer programme of dethroning than either a few days or a few months Maizie but the knives are out on his own side.

Oh, perhaps I needn't be so cautious. An interesting poll in the "i". Will catch up with that in the morning.

lemongrove

Finland has twice the number of suicides as nearby Sweden or any EU country, and a high alcoholic rate as well.
Happiest country? I think not.

You might find some facts useful

worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/suicide-rate-by-country

Callistemon

blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/finland-is-the-happiest-country-in-the-world-and-finns-arent-happy-about-it/

Suicide rates in Finland are half what they were in 1990s…but they remain well above the European average
www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190924-being-depressed-in-the-worlds-happiest-country

2019

What is happiness and how is it rated?

This suziew

My above post doesn’t say Finland is the worst in the world.
Japan and some Eastern European countries are pretty bad,
But in Finland, although they are getting the numbers down
( on alcohol drugs and suicides) they are still very high.
Double of that of neighbouring Sweden for a start.

Anyone who has studied statistics knows that suicide statistics are notoriously inaccurate and can vary from country to country for many reasons. What is counted in official statistics as a suicide depends on a coroners verdict. In many countries where suicide is seen as shameful and even sinful, coroners are reluctant to bring in suicide verdicts and that countries suicide figures will be low . In more tolerant societies, deaths by suicide are less likely to be labelled “accidental” or “open/ unknown”, their figures will be higher.This is one reason why Scandinavian countries have a higher suicide rate compared with more traditional societies. It could be that rates are similar, but the official statistics are not. There is a famous work by Emil Durkheim, written in the 19th century called “Suicide” which analyses this phenomenon.

Understandable concern about funding of PM’s private flat, never matched by concern for the multi million pound funding of royal private homes.

We spent £4.5m on Charles’s home when he moved into Clarence House. Duke and Duchess of Kent’s new home is costing us £400k. Harry’s cottage was £2.4m for refurbs while William and Kate spent £4.5m of public money on doing up their Kensington Palace apartment.

lemongrove

Callistemon

blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/finland-is-the-happiest-country-in-the-world-and-finns-arent-happy-about-it/

Suicide rates in Finland are half what they were in 1990s…but they remain well above the European average
www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190924-being-depressed-in-the-worlds-happiest-country

2019

What is happiness and how is it rated?

This suziew

My above post doesn’t say Finland is the worst in the world.
Japan and some Eastern European countries are pretty bad,
But in Finland, although they are getting the numbers down
( on alcohol drugs and suicides) they are still very high.
Double of that of neighbouring Sweden for a start.

I’ve read the links - I can’t find anywhere that the Finns suicide rate is 2x the Swedish.

vegansrock

Anyone who has studied statistics knows that suicide statistics are notoriously inaccurate and can vary from country to country for many reasons. What is counted in official statistics as a suicide depends on a coroners verdict. In many countries where suicide is seen as shameful and even sinful, coroners are reluctant to bring in suicide verdicts and that countries suicide figures will be low . In more tolerant societies, deaths by suicide are less likely to be labelled “accidental” or “open/ unknown”, their figures will be higher.This is one reason why Scandinavian countries have a higher suicide rate compared with more traditional societies. It could be that rates are similar, but the official statistics are not. There is a famous work by Emil Durkheim, written in the 19th century called “Suicide” which analyses this phenomenon.

The link I posted also discusses several issues that impact suicide rates such as the law on assisted suicide in the relevant country. Yes I know Durkheim’s work as well - it was groundbreaking wasn’t it ? Read it well over 50 years ago - I think he coined the word anomie in it to describe one type of suicide

Yes suziewoozie anyone who uses suicide statistics as a measure of that country’s wellbeing obviously do not understand the way suicide statistics are compiled. Anyway what’s this got to do with the cesspit that is Downing Street.?