Mr Johnson and Mr Cummings

So vote for the sleaze bag liar Johnson
He is selling off the NHS
You were warned.

You got what you voted for

Just for once I absolutely agree with you, Grany. I have struggled ever since the 2019 GE to understand what, precisely, would have been wrong with a Labour government.

When I have asked on this forum all I have heard was a repetition of the MSM anti Corbyn propaganda. Which was always as emotive and fact free as the anti EU propaganda.

...

I have voted labour all my life however I think part of the reason we are sitting here with a Tory government, is the constant implication that those who read MSM are somehow stupid and that their concerns are not worty of recognition.

Worthy rather worty.

I think this whole affair is being blown up by folk with more interest in politics than your average member of the public has.

Cummings = Barnard Castle. Privileged rule breaker when the rest of us were shut up at home under pain of arrest, hence little public sympathy.

Boris = doing his best in hard times. We thought we needed more ventilators at that point, so he pulled strings behind the scenes to make it happen. I doubt that most normal folk will see much wrong with that.

Johnson broke covid guidelines consistently as well. If that was doing his best then he really isnt up to the job.

When I have asked on this forum all I have heard was a repetition of the MSM anti Corbyn propaganda. Which was always as emotive and fact free as the anti EU propaganda

That's true MaisieD

And Galaxy Lots of people don't use critical thinking just take what the newspapers sell them, propaganda as fact. in my opinion.

Callistemon

I can see what Maybee means; Boris blunders through life, not being unpleasant and thinking himself charming, full of bonhomie, but leaving chaos in his wake.

Cummings seems intense, underhand and vengeful. It was surprising that he got caught out lying so easily - he seems more devious than that.

You’re just infantilising him - a pleasant blunder to have a 4 year affair , sometimes using the marital bed, taking her on trade missions and giving her tax payers money? A pleasant blunder to lie so egregiously in your national newspaper column that you were sacked for i? A pleasant blunder whilst on the opposition front bench to lie about another yet another affair and be sacked for it? A pleasant blunder whilst Foreign Secretary to not bother to read your brief and thereby contribute to keeping a woman for years in a foreign jail? A pleasant blunder to go for popularity over leadership and help bring about the death of thousands of your fellow citizens?

God give me strength - Cummings at least is a WYSIWYG and having him as his chief adviser was yet another of Johnson’s charming blunders?

We’re talking about the PM here, not someone down the local pub

Yes I can see you dont think much of the people who were core of the labour vote grany.

Boris = doing his best in hard times. We thought we needed more ventilators at that point, so he pulled strings behind the scenes to make it happen. I doubt that most normal folk will see much wrong with that.

I think most normal people would say "If we need more ventilators why don't we get ventilator manufacturers to step up production and spend some money supporting them if necessary?"

At the risk of annoying Galaxy, I would say that anyone thinking that initiating a lengthy process of design and approval of complex medical equipment in an emergency when approved designs were already out there and available, was a good idea, has got to be not very bright...

@suziewoozie 08.33 ???

Sorry, Maybee, but she's right.

You arent annoying me, if I became annoyed every time I saw the word MSM and stupid in the same sentence I would never be finished, although I admit I can feel myself twitch when I see it .
You cant call the electorate stupid and expect them to vote for you, people just dont work like that. So Johnson or Gove will remain until someone (hopefully Starmer) recognises the futility of that approach.

Hmmmmm. There's a Violet Elizabeth Cummings flavour to Cumming's outpourings.
The perfect PM with a lily white government has yet to be elected at any time or place. This is a lovely drama for the tabloids to feed on.
I do know that Boris has many shortcomings however when history is written he'll be remembered for 'getting Brexit done' and getting the vaccines commissioned, ordered and rolled out. Cummings will be remembered for his trip to Barnard Castle. Two silly men.

I would also hope that most normal people would say that a time of national crisis is actually the time when we need integrity, lack of corruption, etc or people will die.

I’ve got some sympathy with Urmstongran’s first sentence, most people aren’t that interested in politics. This is an important issue, and I don’t know if it’s just me that feels this, but (and I’m saying this as a Labour supporter myself) please can we not derail yet another thread about the government into Labour issues which are being repeated ad infinitum on other threads and criticising other people on Gransnet for not being as switched on, pc, aware, politically astute, intelligent or whatever you want to call it please, it just kills any discussion?

Despite Grany’s comment It’s actually worth looking at the newspaper headlines this morning, it’s clear that the thinking press are seeing that there are serious issues with sleaze in the government. Only the Mail on Sunday is outright blaming Cummings, the others are either avoiding it altogether (presumably because it’s too controversial for the headlines?), or saying that answers are needed.

MaizieD

^Boris = doing his best in hard times. We thought we needed more ventilators at that point, so he pulled strings behind the scenes to make it happen. I doubt that most normal folk will see much wrong with that.^

I think most normal people would say "If we need more ventilators why don't we get ventilator manufacturers to step up production and spend some money supporting them if necessary?"

At the risk of annoying Galaxy, I would say that anyone thinking that initiating a lengthy process of design and approval of complex medical equipment in an emergency when approved designs were already out there and available, was a good idea, has got to be not very bright...

We have structures in this country for example NHSE who within an hour could have identified all the ventilator manufacturers who had already supplied hospitals. Within the next hour these manufacturers could have been contacted as to availability of supplies and possibility of increasing production. There is evidence that in fact manufacturers did contact the DH and never received a call back. FGS Urm instead we set a ( Tory Brexiter ) vacuum manufacturer on designing from scratch what is well known as a complex piece of equipment?

Nothing wrong with that at all ???

I think the main point to take away from the Dyson affair, is not that Johnson was trying his best. He wasn’t. He was doing a mate a favour at the tax payers expense.

But Johnson was intent on trying to carry out an illegal act with regard to tax law.

That is the big issue here.

I’m sure Dyson wasn’t the only contender for provision of ventilators. Boris wouldn’t have put all his eggs in one basket.

I think we’ve forgotten how scared we all felt this time last year. A new virus. No vaccine to hand (yet) and every country scrambling to contain it. Everyone was fearful.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Sir Edward Lister who has stepped aside from a governmental post after only 2 months, has told The Sunday Times that Cummings lives in fear of imprisonment over Brexit and the fraud and lies committed.

Time this was re-visited and some proper investigation carried out.

I suspect Cummings is not the only one.

Urmstongran

I’m sure Dyson wasn’t the only contender for provision of ventilators. Boris wouldn’t have put all his eggs in one basket.

I think we’ve forgotten how scared we all felt this time last year. A new virus. No vaccine to hand (yet) and every country scrambling to contain it. Everyone was fearful.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

And the tax fraud?

I put both my dysons on facebook marketplace a couple of weeks ago, said in the advert they were rubbish and had so many enquiries about them and someone drove hours to fetch them. I bought a shark after reading a review on amazon from an engineer the suction is so strong I have to turn the suction down on carpets otherwise I can't move it.

I am really annoyed they didn't mobilise the very good engineers we do have in this country. A database was set up of security cleared engineers who were able to do government work and no one knows anyone who got work out of it.

You arent annoying me, if I became annoyed every time I saw the word MSM and stupid in the same sentence I would never be finished, although I admit I can feel myself twitch when I see it

I agree. I would be interested to know which reliable and insightful sources of news are used by those who use MSM as shorthand for ‘uninformed’. Anyone?

Urmstongran

I’m sure Dyson wasn’t the only contender for provision of ventilators. Boris wouldn’t have put all his eggs in one basket.

I think we’ve forgotten how scared we all felt this time last year. A new virus. No vaccine to hand (yet) and every country scrambling to contain it. Everyone was fearful.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

No one is saying he did - but he was clearly giving a Tory Brexiter favourable treatment .

Boris simply panicked. He panicked, even more, when he realised the Conservatives had run down the countries preparedness for such an event. He panicked into inaction. This is not a good characteristic in someone who wants to lead the country.

He panicked in the only way he knows how; he contacted those in his "circle". I doubt that includes many of the best engineering companies in areas of the country that were once only seen as fit for hunting.

The man is out of his depth and all the bluster and obfuscation (and the use of Latin and less used parts of the dictionary) will not give him the talent to either lead or put together a team with anything other than getting and keeping Boris in power, as their goal.

He is still panicking as his destructive, verging on criminal nature is catching up with him once more. He may be able to change but I would rather he didn't do it on our time. All prime ministers have flaws - it is often what makes them great in difficult circumstances but Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson only seems to have flaws and lacks any sign of greatness whatsoever.

You’re just infantilising him

So you're telling me he's a grownup then, suziewoozie?

Interesting.