Brexit, Polls have turned, not just one, but all of them, but one

Ollie Robbins was very well regarded by the EU - he was very clever, hard working and had manners. Frost on the other hand is not - there is now the opinion that he has little knowledge or understanding about Ireland - the history or the wider implications of the NI protocol.
I have seen reports that President Biden intends to speak to Johnson about the situation in Ireland and a warning to do nothing to upset the Good Friday Agreement. That agreement was extremely hard won and took a lot of compromise and goodwill on all sides. To cause it to fail now would be an absolute tragedy for everyone in both North and Southern Ireland.

If you agree to sign a contract on a house, knowing full well it has a rotten roof and heating system- then don't go complaining to the seller afterwards. Because the seller warned them, all the experts warned them. In this case the analogy does not even work, as you can fix a rotten roof and heating- this will be almost impossible to fix, as there is no solution.

And you can't fix stupidity and incompetence.

If the person who signed up to the protocol and claimed it as a triumph now says he underestimated its effect on the movement of goods between GB and NI then there are only two possibilities - he is dense or he lied. Take your pick.

I was thinking if (God forbid!) That we had another referendum and leave won again would remainers still think they are right.
Nobody asked me about a poll or any " lets moan about Brexit "poll. Its done Im one of the so called "sleepwalkers" who voted leave and am glad we have. So go on and moan all you like Im fed up with how upset a lot of remainers keep going over the same thing again and again. Rant over.?

MaizieD

Yammy

MaizieD

But you will stop people reading or bothering to have their say and Gransnet will be no more,you have just shown a good example of what I said and will be one who leads to its demise.

Taken a poll of Gnet members have you, Yammy?

There are hundreds of them that never come near the News & Politics forum. I think that Gnet will survive...

Don't need to take a poll you have just answered what I said. I wonder why hundreds never come near!!!!!!! The news and politics who wants to get put down and ranted at?
I hope it will survive but in the manner, it was meant to be.

Well, we are reliably informed by other posters that most people aren't interested in politics, they just want to get on with their daily lives.

So I expect they don't come near because they don't really care...

I'm not altogether sure what manner Gnet was supposed to be. Was it meant to be an echo chamber? Cosy chats with everyone agreeing?

Making assumptions again"People aren't interested in politics, they just want to get on with their lives. I expect they don't come near because they don't care". You are making derogatory assumptions again .
You and a group of aggressive posters are stopping people from putting forward their opinions maybe nor as informed as you think yours are but they should feel comfortable doing so,only then is it a truly open forum.
Remarks like "Cosy chat with everyone agreeing" are not helpful or encouraging .
We should all feel comfortable joining in any post and giving our opinions there are ways of diagreeing without belittling people or writing a disertation.
People alone all day or in difficult circumstances maybe do want to discuss what to you are" trivial ",but they are just as important to them.
Someone suggested Gransnet to me as a forum for women who are interested in a wide range of topics where questions can be asked and a variety of answers given. Which is a great help in this insular world we are all living in at the moment.

Making assumptions again"People aren't interested in politics, they just want to get on with their lives.

Comprehension fail, Yammy. I didn't make any assumptions. I was just pointing out something which another poster has said several times in the last few weeks (and been backed up in that assertion by others). I admit that the 'reliably informed' bit was tongue in cheek. You could probably find the assertion on the 'Don't give a toss' thread, if you care to wade through it.

Someone suggested Gransnet to me as a forum for women who are interested in a wide range of topics where questions can be asked and a variety of answers given.

Which you will find on all the other Gnet forums. Not without some jarring posts, I understand. I don't go on them myself but have read other people's comments on threads asking for everyone to 'be nice'.

I'm afraid that haranguing people about their posting styles is a real waste of time. Yours in writing, ours in reading. People will continue to debate in just the same way as they usually do.

Excellent post Kali2.

It is staggering that people on here and everywhere still seem to think the childlike nature and actions of Frost, Johnson, Gove et. al. are examples to follow.

As your post indicated, they could not find an 8-year old kid to provide the necessary logical thinking.

The only other explanation is that it has been enacted deliberately to ramp up the anti-foreigner mob, and destroy the UK's fishing industry and whatever global reputation we had is in tatters.

Those people who are glad we’ve left and just want people to shut up can keep their heads in the sand. Those of us who care about our country and don’t want to see it sold down the toilet need to keep challenging this corrupt government.

Interestingly, Urmstongran appears to have toned down her admiration for Frost during the past few days. Could the reason be that she is beginning to see the light?

Yammy I see no point in having a News and Politics forum if no one is allowed to debate. Some people are prepared to provide information in support of their opinions and sadly others aren't. Do you really think there is any point in reading someone's comment along the lines of " I just believe it will work". I certainly don't. If someone did come come up with any facts that I agreed with I would acknowledge it. But they rarely provide information but, if they do, it is easily disputed because it's usually wrong.

Amymorris01 : Im one of the so called "sleepwalkers" who voted leave and am glad we have.

If you are glad this would suggest that your life has changed/will change for the better after Brexit. Can you explain in what way?

Im fed up with how upset a lot of remainers keep going over the same thing again and again.

Many people are upset because their life has been made much more difficult because of your 'sleepwalking'. Some now have a lot of extra admin work and, yes, they keep going over the same work again and again. Will you tell them they should just take it on the chin and be glad we've left.

Im sorry Greta I dont have to explain to you anything.

amymorris01

Im sorry Greta I dont have to explain to you anything.

Of course you don't have to explain amy but it is it not the point of debating to give reasons and, if possible, evidence for an opinion?

You are unlikely to persuade anyone else that you have a point by just saying "I'm glad" (about something that so many others are appalled by) then refusing to come up with any logical justification or explanation.

Just saying "that's my opinion" contributes nothing to the debate.

keep your fingers in your ears and pretend it’s all marvellous, but don’t think others will be equally unquestioning. Brexit has damaged fishing, agriculture, travel, hospitality, health and social care, finically sector, importers, exporters, NI, EU citizens here, not to mention individuals trying to visit friends and families, and we will keep on pointing this out. I’m not sure whose benefitted apart from this corrupt government ( now shown to have acted illegally on numerous occasions).

Varian. Im not trying to pursuade any one to my way of thinking Im just saying I voted out and Im just a but fed up of hearing the moaning which never changes. Im sure if remain had got the vote the leavers wouldnt keep going on about it Im sure I wouldnt have.?

What you like to call "the moaning" does actually change on a daily basis as more and more evidence of the damage done by brexit piles up amy.

^ Im sure if remain had got the vote the leavers wouldnt keep going on about it Im sure I wouldnt have.?^

I'm sure that some would have kept going. Farage was all ready to, and so were many others.

But really, for most people in the UK, had Remain won nothing would have changed. Life would have gone on just the same way.

Brexit is involving radical change for many people and it's not change in a good way. Most of it involves loss, people are not happy about this and many will never stop being angry about it. And making their feelings known.

I understand people are angry but people have been angry since the vote because nobody really saw Brexit was going to happen most leavers im sure just hoped it would.
I remember when it first happened and people where happy and also people were surprised and angry to say the least. I was working in a very pro Euro enviroment at the time and two good friends of mine, one French and one Italian were so nasty towards me it was unreal, I just let them have their say but I can truthfully say I wouldnt have been nasty to anyone. Hey Ho. Everybody I know who voted leave havent changed their minds at all but this leave and remain arguement is never going to change either.

amymorris01

Varian. Im not trying to pursuade any one to my way of thinking Im just saying I voted out and Im just a but fed up of hearing the moaning which never changes. Im sure if remain had got the vote the leavers wouldnt keep going on about it Im sure I wouldnt have.?

Actually, those who wanted to leave banged on about it and campaigned against the EU for 40 years.

My brother in law had a Polish carer one morning a week in order to give my SIL some respite. After the result of the referendum she was telling him how she'd voted to leave and was surprised when he was angry. Her response was - "I didn't mean people like you"

She is one of the Leavers whose children have little (son) and nothing (daughter) to do with her.

How you have the nerve to rewrite history after the great jubilation about the best deal ever 18 months ago is aweinspiringly breathtaking and lots of words that would get me banned I was assured yesterday that everyone knew it would take at least 10 years to get things sorted out after Brexit. Fair bit of re-writing history going on here, but there again with a government doing the same, I suppose it is to be expected.

MaizieD

^Someone suggested Gransnet to me as a forum for women who are interested in a wide range of topics where questions can be asked and a variety of answers given.^

Which you will find on all the other Gnet forums. Not without some jarring posts, I understand. I don't go on them myself but have read other people's comments on threads asking for everyone to 'be nice'.

I'm afraid that haranguing people about their posting styles is a real waste of time. Yours in writing, ours in reading. People will continue to debate in just the same way as they usually do.

Thanks for the warning MaizieD, I will be aware of peoples debating style and make sure I avoid their posts in future.
Your post hasn't been a waste of time I have read and learned with interest.

It's so shaming that our government can behave like this.

Just watch out folks, when you next sell a house for example. The exchange has been made, legally agreeing on a price and a date. But the buyer comes back the day before completion expecting you not to stick to the "legal purism" (what the hell does that mean?) but to find "pragmatic solutions". This turns out to mean that they want to behave in a way that breaks the legal contract - don't these "support Johnson and Brexit at any price" posters understand that? He is behaving illegally - which is what everyone tears into Blair about if I remember rightly.

Those trying to defend the indefensible then throw in the fallacious argument that there would have been howls of protest if he’d decided on ‘No Deal’?. Of course there would. That was not what he had promised.

This government breaks promises, laws and absolutely anything they think the proles will not notice but we are not that stupid; we do notice; we notice that whatever their majority they are not fit to govern.

amymorris01

I understand people are angry but people have been angry since the vote because nobody really saw Brexit was going to happen most leavers im sure just hoped it would.
I remember when it first happened and people where happy and also people were surprised and angry to say the least. I was working in a very pro Euro enviroment at the time and two good friends of mine, one French and one Italian were so nasty towards me it was unreal, I just let them have their say but I can truthfully say I wouldnt have been nasty to anyone. Hey Ho. Everybody I know who voted leave havent changed their minds at all but this leave and remain arguement is never going to change either.

I'm not disputing that few have changed their minds, but since 2016 about 2 million people have died. It's known the elderly tended to vote for Brexit, so many of those who died probably did. There are also approximately the same number of young people who are now eligible to vote. It's known that the majority of them are in favour of closer links with the EU, even if it's not possible to rejoin just yet.

amymorris01

Varian. Im not trying to pursuade any one to my way of thinking Im just saying I voted out and Im just a but fed up of hearing the moaning which never changes. Im sure if remain had got the vote the leavers wouldnt keep going on about it Im sure I wouldnt have.?

I am absolutely sure that if Remain had won, those who wished to leave would have carried on moaning about all the perceived flaws in the EU. Maybe you just didn't hear them because you were one of them