Birthing People - inclusive or offensive?

FarNorth

^It seems very odd to me to claim to be a supporter of women but to deny one section of women their rights.^

But transmen are men trisher! They are absolutely not a section of women.

I absolutely agree but from the posts on this thread many don't believe that. If you believe they are women still how can you deny their right to be called men or to not be called mother?
It shows how stupid denying trans rights is and how stupid the argument that this is anything to do with feminism is. It's plainly and simply prejudice and discrimination.

Indeed, going along with a delusion that people can change sex could be dangerous for those people, with respect to their medical treatment.
How is that helped by changing the wording used for everyone?

I have no problem with women wanting to become men, but if you want to go down this route then all your female reproductive parts should be removed.

You cannot have it both ways, if you want to be a man, then you give up the right to be able to give birth.

“birthing person” doesn’t cover it all anyway does it?

The issue of adoptive mothers has already been raised but there are also those who have a surrogate birth. The surrogate is the birthing person but genetically not the mother.

So it isn’t inclusive at all.

Just watched some footage of a Democratic Health Committee member (male) I think he was the Head, trying to justify this nonsense when questioned by a Republican (male ) and he avoided using the word Mother so many times in his answers it was truly pitiful. I fear there is no depths they will go to in appeasing the militants.

It is neither inclusive nor offensive......it is just plain daft.

trisher is this sentence true?
"Han descru enjovo san."

I expect you have no idea because you don't know what those words mean.
Language only works because there is an agreement as to what the words mean.

Yes, countless transmen have given birth. They are still women and female and mothers.
They may wish to call themselves 'birthing persons' but that doesn't mean they have the right to remove the word 'mother' from other women.

Computers will be confused. Hope the cpu tells the memory about the change to birthingpersonboard.

Stonewall now want schools to stop using boy and girl.

Far North you say "countless" transmen have given birth, genuine question I wonder just how many, I think I read about one, maybe two in Britain. Even globally I imagine the number is infinitesimal to warrant such sweeping changes and as you say to remove the word "mother" a word of immense importance throughout all cultures since the beginning of time.

I find it neither inclusive nor offensive, but just plain stupid.
I cannot see any sense in it at all.

Does that mean when our children address us as Mother it now has to be person who gives birth. Or happy mothers day now has to be happy person who gave birth to me

a person who gives birth will they be daddy or mummy ?

Can't help wondering if a person who wishes to be known as a man would want to undergo one of a very defining state that pertains to females. I thought the whole point of transitioning was to immerse one's self in the opposite of what they once were and presumably at some stage having certain parts of anatomy removed or added to become either a man or woman.

Birthing Person of God!!
( according to the letter of the law, Mx. The letter!”)

There was one court case where a trans man who had given birth wanted to go on the birth certificate as mother and father. He lost. If you want to have a child of your own TB how would you achieve it if you are trans man without giving birth yourself before fully transitioning.

25Avalon

There was one court case where a trans man who had given birth wanted to go on the birth certificate as mother and father. He lost. If you want to have a child of your own TB how would you achieve it if you are trans man without giving birth yourself before fully transitioning.

The Angel Gabriel?

BlueBelle

Yep I m in agreement with the rest of posters you can’t give birth without a womb whatever words you use

Yes indeed.

Anniebach

a person who gives birth will they be daddy or mummy ?

Freddy McConnell lost in court, when trying to be registered as 'father' on their baby's birth certificate.
I expect the child does now call Freddy 'daddy' tho.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/29/transgender-man-loses-appeal-court-battle-registered-father-freddy-mcconnell

Hannah & Jake Graf are both transgender and became parents last year.
www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/trans-couple-documentary-modern-miracle-18676622

Not all transmen who give birth get into the news, but I get the impression there are plenty of them - although not nearly as many of them as other women, of course.
www.today.com/health/trans-parents-say-medical-system-isn-t-set-their-pregnancies-t218691

It's a mistake to think that all trans people have genital surgery. Most don't.

I don't agree with the idea of requiring anyone to undergo surgery, btw.

But no one has said you can't be called "mother", if that is what you wish. But legislation has to cover all the eventualities and one of those is that someone who gives birth may prefer not to be called 'mother' and their right to do so should be respected. It's simply extending the law to cover everyone and not undermining anyone's rights.

If anyone refers to me as a birthing person I will not be responsible for my reaction

By the way Freddy McConnell is English law and the OP is about USA law. It will be interesting to see if the same question is raised in court there. Who knows what Freddy's child calls him. I know women who refused to be called 'mother'they thought it impinged on their individuality.

I haven't read the original source of this decision about naming the female progenitor of offspring, but I don't think it is intended to replace "mother" for all of those female progenitors, but just to be used optionally for those who don't regard themselves as female mothers, and so don't want to be labelled as one. Getting our (large maternity size) knickers in a twist over it is rather over-reacting. It is only the relatively few trans people who find themselves in a maternity ward and addressed as "Mother" who are affected. If they don't want to think of themselves as the child's mother, that is their choice.

It doesn't alter the biological fact that if a child has been nurtured for nine months inside a body that, at that time, was hormonally female enough to support it, the relationship between nurturer and nurtured is inescapably a mother-and-child one, just as the relationship of a foetus or a newborn child with the provider of sperm is a father-and-child one. That is the most basic definition of the words "mother" and "father". The future nurturing and upbringing of the child once it is born may change its relationship with its parents and/or carers, but up to its arrival in the world, it is dependent on the hormones that keep the womb environment suitable for its survival - and female.