A question

25Avalon

I wouldn’t call Tony Blair squeaky clean. He lied to us all and sent our boys to war unnecessarily. Adultery and mistresses have been around politicians for hundreds of years, as I discovered reading the biographies of various historical leaders. Just some manage to keep it quieter than others. Very disillusioning.

WE RE NOT TALKING ABOUT POLITICIANS AND MISTRESSES. That's irrelevant to the thread.

We are talking about the things listed in the OP:

law-breaking, rule-breaking, dishonesty, deceit, cronyism, nepotism, incompetence, bullying, conflict of interest or waste of tax-payers money

No, Blair is not squeaky clean, but he and his government were nothing like as bad as our current one. Nor were Brown's, Cameron's or May's governments. Nor were the many that preceded them post WW2.

The question is, how much can supporters of the current government tolerate before they say 'Enough is enough'?

Smileless2012

Being judgemental about the government is one thing Whitewavemark, being judgemental about other posters because of the opinions they hold, is totally different, unacceptable, unnecessary and does nothing to enhance the discussion.

?

You seem very keen to bring Tony Blair into the conversation 25Avalon . I don't think anybody has said he's squeaky clean, have they? Also, he hasn't been PM for 14 years .

I will admit that I will have certain unkind thoughts about people who vote Tory now, and continue to say they do and there's no option. Voting Tory has always been a sign that they think entirely differently to me about how the country should be run, and what was fair and what wasn't. OK so far. That's not a problem.

But anybody who now thinks its fine to support this government is a bit.... misguided?

MaisieD I was responding to the last part of Holysox post. Perhaps you would like to shout at her as well?

To say Blair was not as bad is in your opinion. I don’t agree. I am also sick of all these disparaging remarks from people who like nothing better than to put the government down all the time.

Alegrias it was Holysox who brought up Tony Blair. At each election I examine the party politics, leaders, and local contenders before I decide for whom to vote.

growstuff wants to praise the NHS for the vaccination programme but, presumably, does not want to give credit to the government. As I understand it, the government invested in the vaccine programme from the beginning, ensuring every effort was made to develop vaccines, and also secured purchasing contracts ... long before the EU got it's act together. And isn't the NHS a public body so again credit to the government. I am thankful for my vaccine, for my family who are now vaccinated. Hopefully we can unlock the economy completely soon, and work towards getting 'normal' life back.

Alegrias thanks for the chart showing how far the UK is in terms of vaccination compared to the rest of the EU. Call me misguided then, but Boris seems to be doing o.k. in this respect, which is probably the single most impotant issue of the day. COVID certainly put Brexit into perspective.

Covid, added to Brexit- certainly has! In short, the first made the seond even worse, many times so.

Smileless2012

Being judgemental about the government is one thing Whitewavemark, being judgemental about other posters because of the opinions they hold, is totally different, unacceptable, unnecessary and does nothing to enhance the discussion.

I don’t normally, but sometimes my judgemental side pops up uninvited.

But there you go it’s a cross I have to bear

25Avalon sorry you got shouted at. I didn't mean I thought Blair was actually 'Squeaky clean' but he certainly presented this persona to get elected. Afterall, we should expect all politicians, certainly the top man, to be honest, upright, moral people. I wanted to make the point that Boris is open so perhaps appeals to the average voter, many if whom can relate to the breakdown of his marriage with divorce at such a high rate in the UK.
The OP thinks adultery is not what she wanted discussed - but surely cheating on your wife, husband or partner falls into rule-breaking, dishonesty and deceit.

Kali2

Covid, added to Brexit- certainly has! In short, the first made the seond even worse, many times so.

Sorry don't understand. I think Brexit put the UK is a stronger position to fight COVID. You think it made things worse?

No it didn't - all propaganda.

HolySox

25Avalon sorry you got shouted at. I didn't mean I thought Blair was actually 'Squeaky clean' but he certainly presented this persona to get elected. Afterall, we should expect all politicians, certainly the top man, to be honest, upright, moral people. I wanted to make the point that Boris is open so perhaps appeals to the average voter, many if whom can relate to the breakdown of his marriage with divorce at such a high rate in the UK.
The OP thinks adultery is not what she wanted discussed - but surely cheating on your wife, husband or partner falls into rule-breaking, dishonesty and deceit.

Well I guess adultery does fall into that category, but I think it can be questioned whether it impinges on a persons ability to do their job to a high level of competence.

What my beef is that this lot do nothing with any degree of competence except shagging and making money at the tax payers expense.

HolySox it’s OK. Used to it on here. I just remind myself empty vessels make the most noise.

HolySox

Alegrias thanks for the chart showing how far the UK is in terms of vaccination compared to the rest of the EU. Call me misguided then, but Boris seems to be doing o.k. in this respect, which is probably the single most impotant issue of the day. COVID certainly put Brexit into perspective.

A picture paints a thousand words. Tortoise and the hare. Etc etc.

It doesn't matter how often Johnson turns up to bump elbows with some unsuspecting vaccine candidate, it didn't have much to do with him. The much maligned Mr Hancock found the money and Kate Bingham did the work.

The OP thinks adultery is not what she wanted discussed - but surely cheating on your wife, husband or partner falls into rule-breaking, dishonesty and deceit.

Hancock's affair is private, nothing to do with the government. Things peripheral to it are, like contracts for cronies and unscrutinised appointments, but once we go down the Hancock rabbit hole the point of the question is completely lost.

BTW, it wasn't the OP who was objecting to the Hancock deviation, it was me.

So how about telling us how much of the OP's list would you tolerate before no longer supporting the whole government?

^ I wanted to make the point that Boris is open so perhaps appeals to the average voter, many if whom can relate to the breakdown of his marriage with divorce at such a high rate in the UK.^

I'm sure that the average voter strongly relates to serial shagging and unknown numbers of offspring; don't we all have that going on in our lives? Of course, Johnson needs our empathy because he is the injured party here, isn't he?

Sorry, this just makes me laugh...

Kali2

No it didn't - all propaganda.

Which way round are you talking about? What’s propaganda?

^ I am also sick of all these disparaging remarks from people who like nothing better than to put the government down all the time.^

Never mind, I get sick of all the appalling remarks about the Labour Party when it is a) not in government and b) not flaunting unchecked corruption, incompetence and law breaking in front of us. We just have to suck it up, I feel...

Terrible formatting fails today. Apologies...

MaizieD I started with “Don’t really bother with politics” so don’t see myself as a ‘Tory follower’. My experience over the years is there has always been controversy with our politicians. However, I feel that our media has been ‘free’ and the public have always been able to criticise our politicians and am grateful to live in this country. Usually public opinion has brought change. For instance,, Cummings has gone.
However, if the worst fault we can find is that our PM may have gone over budget on refurbishing a public building (no. 10). Awarding government contracts to ‘mates’ not sure about - but at the time the criticism was get PPE, get it now!
Of course, we could live in China where the government has control over the vaccine because they have total control over the people.

Alegrias1

HolySox

Alegrias thanks for the chart showing how far the UK is in terms of vaccination compared to the rest of the EU. Call me misguided then, but Boris seems to be doing o.k. in this respect, which is probably the single most impotant issue of the day. COVID certainly put Brexit into perspective.

A picture paints a thousand words. Tortoise and the hare. Etc etc.

It doesn't matter how often Johnson turns up to bump elbows with some unsuspecting vaccine candidate, it didn't have much to do with him. The much maligned Mr Hancock found the money and Kate Bingham did the work.

I would think rolling out a vaccine as soon as possible will saves more lives. Good to see our European neighbours getting their daily vaccinations numbers up - they need to to catch up with us. I don’t think this is a ‘Hare and Tortoise’ situation.

When I say Boris I mean in the sense of his government. Matt and Kate work for him.

However, if the worst fault we can find is that our PM may have gone over budget on refurbishing a public building (no. 10).

If you think that's the worst thing about Johnson you really haven't been paying attention.

I am also sick of all these disparaging remarks from people who like nothing better than to put the government down all the time.

How can we hold the government to account -any government- if we aren't allowed to criticise them when they're failing in their duty?

Can somebody then build this government up instead – but not by repeating the vaccination success or ”got Brexit done” argument.

I would think rolling out a vaccine as soon as possible will saves more lives.

One might think so, definitely. However....

UK deaths per million 1,877

Spain, 1,727; France, 1,696, Germany, 1,086

Haven't seen Boris stepping up to claim that statistic.

Holysox you do know that Hungary, which is in the EU is ahead of the UK for total population fully vaccinated already I assume. We aren’t that wonderful.