Occasionally, just occasionally ...

How heartening to read of some not so common sense!

Thanks Vampirequeen. An interesting article and I am in full agreement with Marc Jones.

I don't think that all police officers need degrees, but I do wish the inverted snobbery would stop.

It's not either so-called 'common sense' OR a degree. People can have both, but so often the two things are set in opposition.

Probably like most people, I know nothing of expressive dance degrees; but I assume that (as well skills such as research, discipline, determination and independence) they require the ability to 'read' the body language of others, which would be useful in a night-time brawl.

Also, whereas not all graduates have 'common sense', it's not a given that non-graduates do have it, surely? Are all ex-soldiers necessarily ideal police material? It's just such lazy thinking.

This is one of those artificial either / or headlines that make no sense.

Ex-military have some great skills, but have to learn to operate in a very different environment if they join the police.

Graduates of all kinds also have great skills, depending on their degree - and although 'expressive dance' sounds like one plucked out of nowhere.....I actually do know someone with a degree in dance who is a well-respected police officer of 15 years' standing. Although youth work is not his focus, he does get asked to join in sometimes, to the great respect of the kids. I am hoping this isn't 'identifying' and I don't think so, as he is aware of others, including an ex-corps-de-ballet.

Don't dismiss the physical skills of dancers either; their co-ordination and agility is helpful in the physical side of policing!

Don't dismiss the physical skills of dancers either; their co-ordination and agility is helpful in the physical side of policing!

Someone with a degree in expressive dance would probably be very fit and muscular.
It doesn't mean that they lack common sense or that they would be unable to write up endless police reports.

That being said, I don't think it's necessary to have a degree to become a police officer and candidates should be picked on their merits whether they have a degree or not.

I do not think that nursing always requires a degree either, some of the most efficient, proficient and caring nurses were those with the old SEN qualification.

Absolutely right, a way in for all who want to apply , as it should be.

I agree, there should be room for both in the police.

But I also think a graduate of expressive dance would be far fitter and stronger than most of the entrants.

Also agree that having a degree does not mean having no common sense, it is another of these tactics of trying to set groups of people against each other, particularly harmful in a profession like the police, where teamwork is a key component.

I used to go to a lot of contemporary dance and ballet performances and occasionally the husband of a friend would be dragged, reluctantly, along to one. They invariably thought that the men were homosexual but were always surprised at the athleticism and strength of the male dancers. The females too of course.

I once saw Sylvie Guillem take a running leap at Russell Maliphant and land on his shoulders. He didn't flinch and was as solid as a rock. There's not many sports people who could cope with that particular movement let alone anyone else.

So, they are very physically fit and why should a dance degree be any less desirable for the police force than a classics?

I know who I would rather work alongside.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202107/medium-16764-6748d86f-954b-4466-bd46-17163d1ff4cc.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202107/medium-612242-451b204a-9c2f-42c8-a6ec-91acf8c4fa30.jpeg

Priti Patel has been urged to abandon all-graduate police plans as officers would rather serve alongside former soldiers when breaking up a night-time brawl than people with “expressive dance” degrees."
What a ridiculous comparison. No need to be so dismissive of dancers! Their physique, strength and athleticism go without saying
If my PC Plod looked anything like this I wouldn’t be complaining either

It's a silly statement in my opinion.

Trained dancers are fit, supple, athletic and disciplined.

Police officers don’t need degrees, but they do need some intelligence which nowadays (when most people seem to go to University) I suppose it’s assumed that those who don’t go can’t be up to much in the old brain dept.Not always true of course, even now, but it’s a requirement just as a nursing degree is.
Ability to assess a situation and do the right thing and to stay calm, fitness , and a sixth sense (!) are what the police officer in my family says is needed more than a degree though.

The problem with degree entrants into the police force is that they can be fast tracked to senior positions without much experience.

The choice is not between a soldier or a dancer! Dancing was given as an example, it could be any degree.
A soldier will have all sorts of amazing skills, especially being able to read a potentially dangerous situation and be swiftly able to choose an appropriate response. They would have the confidence and body language to deal with aggressive people, of which there seem to be many more these days. I think the Police force is an ideal job for an ex-soldier.

There always used to be ex military in the police force. Nothing new.

I think the commissioner is saying that we shouldn’t take on a graduate because he has a degree at the expense of a soldier who doesn’t have an academic qualification but has other valuable skills.
There is room in the modern force for both. Perhaps his choice of example was unfortunate as dancers also have a valuable skill set, but I understand the point he was making.
If all entrants have a degree all will expect to be fast tracked to senior positions.
Personally I feel that promotion should be on merit during the career and not based purely on a degree.

The question should be quite simply as to whether being a policeman requires the skills that a degree should impart and that someone without a degree would not have.

And the answer is that the skill set needed to be a policeman does not require a degree. This is not to say that there are graduates already in the force, one is my godson, but beyond saying that his degree means that he has reached a certain level of intelligence, there are also many pe

And, by the way, LauraNorder, he hasn't expected to be fast tracked to a senior position, he has refused promotion because he has found an area of policing he really enjoys and does not want to give it up. I do dislike the automatic assumption that degree entrants will be pushy and expect their degrees to do them favours. As with anything it depends on the person.

Sorry, part of second para disappeared. It should read

'.....there are also many people without degrees who have the same level of intelligence as many graduates and new entrants coming from other professions may well bring in skill sets that graduates lack.'

Monica there is no automatic assumption on my part that degree entrants will be pushy. I did not say any such thing.
I do feel that those who have studied and worked hard to gain their degree should expect to be fast tracked to more senior roles, otherwise what is the point of working for a degree.
My point was that if all recruits have a degree all will have a right to expect to be fast tracked. Resulting in chaos.
I would like to see police officers recruited from many walks of life, graduates, military personal, school leavers with aptitude and ambition.
I just meant that all should be recruited at the same level and promoted on merit.
Police officers need many skills, a degree will prove that they have the intelligence but empathy, honesty, self discipline and basic decency are attributes not necessarily proven on paper.

I am sorry LauraNorder I do not think that graduates should have any special privileges when they enter non-degree employments of any kind. There will be many other entrants who will have experience and skill sets different from theirs but just as good within the context of the profession involved.

Having a degree does not mean you are automatically endowed with wisdom or commonsense and other professions will require aptitudes that are not included in their degree studies. If a graduate enters a non-degree profession they must start at the same level as others and earn their promotion on the same basis as others.

The question of the point of their degree is something for them to work out for themselves and if more young people asked that question before going to university, it might be a good idea, but that is a subject for another thread.

I do think that we agree Monica. I think I have just expressed myself badly.

LauraNorder

I do think that we agree Monica. I think I have just expressed myself badly.

No, you didn't, LauraNorder

I understand what you mean and fast track programmes have been operating for some years, not necessarily all are graduates but others recruits may be older and have other experience.

However, that does not mean that all police recruits should have to be graduates.

What we need are police who are organised, accurate, disciplined and able to cope with the stresses of the job. I've been involved in 2 criminal investigations (not against me, I hasten to add) and the mistakes the police have made are really unforgivable when a conviction relies on it. The inaccuracies in their reporting are just sloppy. I don't care if they are graduates or not as long as they can do the job.
Making a degree an entry requirement might be helpful if it is criminology or a similar degree but not a degree for a degree's sake. It just seems to me that jobs which used to be open to A level students are now only open to graduates like, say, the Civil Service Executive Officers. This is counter productive where you have a person with all the skills needed but who couldn't afford to take 3 years out to languish at University getting bladdered. 11 hours contact time a week for half the year doesn't make you any more likely to be better placed as a police officer...although you might be used to rowdy drunks!

Mmm sounds like real common sense.
However they need just as much background history as any other employee-wasn’t the policeman who killed Sarah Evered(?)a former soldier?