"gesture politics"

If taking the knee dates back to the image of 1788, then surely it is acquiescing with slavery? It is saying yes you are a slave, in a society that abolished slavery 150 years ago (the US) and this picture shows it and your pleas for freedom will be ignored.

Anyway in that picture the posture of the slave is completely different from the gesture used now. The slave is looking upwards, with arms raised where every picture I have seen taking the knee means also resting your arms on your knees and bowing your head as if in prayer, which takes us back to Martin Luther King.

I don’t see it as saying that you are a slave. The text anchors it anyway - Am I not a man and a brother? The viewer is positioned such that the question is being asked to us - are not all men brothers?

When the football team take the knee together, they are showing solidarity both with one another as a multi-racial team, and with the supporters of all colours and creeds.

The current pose is linked to the old one, rather than replicating it, and also references MLK and George Floyd. It is a signifier of racial unity, rather than an impersonation of the original image, and has evolved over time.

I think it's all the more relevant now, after the football racism.

M0nica

If taking the knee dates back to the image of 1788, then surely it is acquiescing with slavery? It is saying yes you are a slave, in a society that abolished slavery 150 years ago (the US) and this picture shows it and your pleas for freedom will be ignored.

Anyway in that picture the posture of the slave is completely different from the gesture used now. The slave is looking upwards, with arms raised where every picture I have seen taking the knee means also resting your arms on your knees and bowing your head as if in prayer, which takes us back to Martin Luther King.

No it was used as an image by the abolitionists.

Don’t forget you have to get into the 18 th century mind.

Of course the gesture is different, but believe me the gesture is based on those images from past centuries.

But to be honest it matters not.

What matters is the reason it still is needed by so many millions still suffering abuse.

Talking about the messenger is what the detractors want to be done

Listen to the message.

The message is that millions of people are abused, or killed, certainly suffer gross inequality throughout the world because of their skin colour.

They are written out of both western and their own history, wrongly represented in so much art. Their literature is ignored and their religions and cultures have been to a very large extent exterminated or ignored by “good 19 th century Christians”.

The African continent has suffered the most, but whole peoples were exterminated in Australia, Hitler tried hard but didn’t succeed with the Jewish race, but we were much more efficient at genocide - exterminating the Pawala.

Racism is grounded in these times. So when people say “oh that is history, times have changed” they ignore the facts. Times have changed but racism grounded in so much subjugation, death and cultural destruction has not changed. It is still carried with us.

It is time we were educated into the modern world.

again, I admit I haven`t read all the posts here, actually I find it all so depressing

my view on this idea of racism, is that it isn`t "racism" it is all to do with the colour of a persons skin.

correct me please, anyone, it bothers me!

I am vehemently anti racist but I can’t help feeling that taking the knee has become very divisive.
The BLM movement seems to me to be an excuse to use racism to cause trouble and violence on the streets.
I’d like our footballers to express themselves in a different way if possible.

polnan
It is definitely connected with the colour of a person’s skin. It’s strange that white people are so keen to get a suntan, yet black people want skin whitening! I can understand culture clashes, but its not important what colour a person’s skin is! It’s what’s inside that matters. Black skin is beautiful anyway!

I'm another who didn't know before reading these posts that 'taking the knee' predates George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.
My silly problem - and I know it is silly - is the expression itself. I like words to make sense and this still seems to grate - many people on this thread put it in inverted commas I notice.
It still seems to me to make the gesture self-conscious rather than a spontaneous expression of solidarity.

I think the fact that George Floyd was killed by a knee on his neck was the powerful symbol of 'taking the knee'. It works because it has other totally peaceful references as kneeling in prayer. It is less assertive than the raised fist which black power athletes used. At this moment when racism has raised its very ugly head it definitely should be used. And people will cheer and not boo.

I am more shocked by the comments made by the Home Secretary who herself has been subject to racial abuse !

Priti Patel has been on the receiving end of social media racist attacks for a long time. I think her wording has been taken wrongly. I think she means that taking the knee has no practical purpose. She wants people to do more than a gesture.

Cartoon from The Times of Priti Patel.

I find this disgusting on so many levels.

Yes, isn’t it GG
A cartoon of men ( from the look of the hands)trying to gag a woman and what she says....we should be used to it eh?

I don't agree that we should adopt a "British version" ?! .by having a globally recognised action the message becomes global! The red cross is so recognised globally. A strong message needs an instantly recognisable marque.

As usual opportunists leap at the chance to insult and abuse 51%of society in one fell rubbish not funny or relevant badly produced cartoon! Not needed and badly executed.

This thread started as a comment on gesture politics and seems to have developed into an anti racist thread.
Going back to the NHS. They truly deserve a pay rise and did so anyway before Covid-19. There are many others who have also been affected such as the police, teachers, shop workers, transport workers and many more. They are all deserving of a rise but I doubt the country can afford it. Many people even in private organisations such as my DH haven’t had a rise in over 3 years and have no expectations of one anytime soon.

The black lives matter has been appropriated by people whose sole ambition is to cause violence and disorder. They have called for the police to be defunded,our police are certainly not perfect but this has become a political gesture. Pritty Patel has come in for some appalling racism all her life she is merely saying that the movement has become politicised.

Eloethan regarding Ms.Patel saying that taking the knee was gesture politics , taking the knee is definitely a gesture and it is definitely political.

By the way Peter Brookes is not an opportunist , but a highly respected cartoonist in the true sense of the word , who has done brilliant work . Cartoons are a commentary which should be read as written pieces, and therefore not always funny .

Esspee

The problem with “taking the knee” is that the Black Lives Matter has associated it with the appalling death of George Floyd.
I am 100% against racism and my life demonstrates this. I would never make, or encourage others to make the gesture which glorifies George Floyd. He didn’t deserve what happened to him but was a thoroughly detestable person.

Taking the knee to show solidarity with the anti racism movement was around waaaaay before the George Floyd murder. Years and years before. Anyone who is anti racism knows this. I lost a good friend years ago because we disagreed about it.

Also, many people who have committed horrific crimes have suffered the death penalty. Obviously I don't support violet crime. But I'm still anti death penalty.

GrannyGravy13

Cartoon from The Times of Priti Patel.

I find this disgusting on so many levels.

That is obscene. There is no excuse or reason for that.

GrannyGravy13

Eloethan regarding Ms.Patel saying that taking the knee was gesture politics , taking the knee is definitely a gesture and it is definitely political.

Better a non-violent, brief gesture than a race riot. Martin Luther King would have approved.

westendgirl

By the way Peter Brookes is not an opportunist , but a highly respected cartoonist in the true sense of the word , who has done brilliant work . Cartoons are a commentary which should be read as written pieces, and therefore not always funny .

Do you approve of this cartoon?

It is our Tory government which has defunded the police

I think it is all overhyped. I do not see the point of aimlessly clapping outside one’s door as making any difference to the staff of the NHS
And ‘taking the knee’ and harping on about black lives mattering is more divisive than ever - judging by what our fine young footballers were subjected to. Bringing a distinction to one section of the community rather than being accepting of everyone just gives those who choose to be ‘-ist’ a reason for more dissent