Police and racism

Lolo81

The issue I see is that cited statistics and overall conviction rates etc are underpinning the institutional racism at play. One could argue that if young men who are not white are 9 times more likely to be a target of stop and search, then all these statistics are proving is that the numbers of convictions/arrests are a direct result of that specific population being targeted. Not that there are fewer white men actually breaking the law - they’re just more likely to not get caught because it’s less likely that they’ll be stopped.

That has crossed my mind, but bear in mind that there are apparently no statistics to show the ethnicity of those convicted.

Perhaps there should be?

Galaxy

If we are going to stop people because of a particular characteristic then the overwhelming marker for violent crime is sex, so we should be stopping all males, I presume people are comfortable with this.

Exactly Galaxy.

Start stopping 1 in 10 cars driven by men (whatever colour).

My ( white) husband worked shifts as an IT professional. When he managed to finish a nightshift early, say 3 am or so he was frequently stopped by either City of London police or our local police and asked to account for being out and about at that hour. Yes it was an inconvenience, yes it was a PITA, yes he got p*ssed off with being stopped, but he accepted they were just doing their job. Our poor police can't do right for doing wrong. Wonder who their fiercest critics call when they're a victim of crime.......

It's all very well Rosie, but when it is repeated all the time, it goes beyond being just an inconvenience to being discrimination.

It is soul destroying. Being discriminated against repeatedly, week in, week out. NOT a one off, but all the bl**dy time.

There is a fact checker on the BBC web site which states that stopping and searching makes no discernible difference whatsoever to the arrest rate.

So it appears that all stop and search is achieving is to reinforce the apparent and according to Home Committees findings that the police are racist.

It may make no discernible difference to the arrest rate, but may make all the difference in the world if knives are taken off people so they they can’t stab anyone on that particular day.
Many black mothers in London are glad that their sons and friends are being stopped and knives taken off them, they are sick of attending young funerals and having so many lives both taken at an early age and others ruined by long prison sentences for a moment’s madness.

I suggest you talk to a few black mothers about stop and search lemongrove. Your opinions are not based in fact.

When I was a going teenager in London a group of us used to hang out down the road, just to be sociable. We got searched and moved on. It wasn’t a free country then and obviously nothing has changed. Another reason for leaving.

going = young

Gaga they are based on seeing and hearing mothers on the tv news/radio and documentaries I have seen.
There will be other mothers who are angry about their sons being stopped and searched am sure.
There are so many funerals of young black men and teenagers stabbed to death that tbh stopping and searching, education in schools and parents warnings whilst not working completely, is all that can be done to mitigate things.

There are so many women who are raped or assaulted or killed by men. All men should be stopped on a regular basis. After all we want to stop violent crime.

Yes Galaxy. Just a way to enforce racial dominance. Just like the killings of black men in the US by the police.

I agree with your posts @ 8.41 and 9.01 lemongrove and in addition to what you've said, the distinct possibility of being stopped and searched may also be a deterrent to carrying knives at all.

Smileless2012

I agree with your posts @ 8.41 and 9.01 lemongrove and in addition to what you've said, the distinct possibility of being stopped and searched may also be a deterrent to carrying knives at all.

I think we may all agree with it in principle.

But the fact is that an ethnic minority is being stopped far more than the ethnic majority.

There is racism in the police

You can make all the political changes you like, but you can't change people's underlying thought processes.
Political changes may help, superficially, but nothing will bring equality until a whole generation has been educated against judging people based on their appearance.
The problem of gang culture / knife crime too needs to be solved, but again, it seems an impossibility, as gang members get the sense of belonging and companionship that is often missing in their family relationships.

If 10 + stop and searches save 1 young life it’s worth it.

GrannyGravy13

If 10 + stop and searches save 1 young life it’s worth it.

Not if you're the same black guy who has been stopped for the tenth time...

IMO there are so many factors that would need to be taken into account for a truly accurate picture. For example referring to your post Maizie where does he live? Does he live or is he generally stopped in an area with a high crime rate? Does that particular area have a higher % of ethnic minorities? Was he always alone or within a group? Was the general behaviour being displayed by the individual or group of a suspicious nature? Were the police following up a report? What's the outcome ie what % of ethnic minorities who are stopped and searched are found to be in possession of an illegal weapon and/or substance, in comparison to the % ethnic majority.

"There is racism in the police" yes unfortunately there is, there's racism in many areas of society but for me, far more detailed research needs to be done before it's assumed that the police only stop someone from an ethnic minority because they're not white, when there may well be other factors that arose suspicion.

smileless

Detailed research has been done that is why the Home Affairs committee came to the conclusion that the police are racist.

Smileless2012

I agree with your posts @ 8.41 and 9.01 lemongrove and in addition to what you've said, the distinct possibility of being stopped and searched may also be a deterrent to carrying knives at all.

Well, IF as you and the other poster have implied, the knife problem is a black problem, AND the stop and search of black people has been going on for years, it clearly hasn't worked yet.

MAYBE they should stop, stop and search and find a solution that works.

My blonde haired blue eyed AC was stopped fairly often when he went from having long hair (student) to cropped hair.
I still say if it saves lives and prevents knife crime (however few) it should continue.

The problem with ploughing on with s&s is that it doesn’t work. It is encouraging those racists in the police force in their bad ways, and it is storing up future trouble with those feeling aggrieved at being constantly picked on.

GrannyGravy13

My blonde haired blue eyed AC was stopped fairly often when he went from having long hair (student) to cropped hair.
I still say if it saves lives and prevents knife crime (however few) it should continue.

Of course, anecdote trumps data every time, doesn't it?

Nobody is saying that white people don't get stopped. Just that black people get stopped more often and disproportionately.

We have knife crime up here in the frozen north. We also have a miniscule black population. Our knifers are predominately white. How does that work?

We don't know it hasn't worked do we GagaJo, it could be a lot worse if there hadn't been stop and search, and I am not implying that knife problem is a black problem.

IMO the conclusion should have been that there is racism within the police force not that the police are racist Whitewavemark.

Ethnic minorities shouldn't be tarred with the knife carrying drug taking/supplying brush any more than all serving police officers should be tarred with the racist brush.

The Government Race Commission in March 2021 stated that institutional racism doesn't exist but "overt and outright racism persists" but says that the UK should be an example to other white majority countries. A more measured conclusion IMO.

Whitewavemark2

This does not appear to support your claim

Looking further into this graph non white knife convictions are very high in proportion to the non white population. Non White population is around 15% a graph weighted according to ethnic background would give a true picture of the occurrence