So many dreams for our youngsters dashed.

but what makes it hard to agree is the accusatory tone, the intransigence and the implication that anybody who is not 101% in agreement is somehow small -minded, Little British and pig ignorant

Sorry, Maw. What makes it hard to take is the smug indifference to the effect that the Leave vote has had on other people's lives. A Remain vote would have made no difference at all to people's lives. It's a big responsibility to make choices for other people which may have a detrimental effect. That never seems to have been considered.

One day there might be an apology...

Bloody hell, reading some of these posts.....why should anyone decide whether or not being a chalet maid, ski instructor or nursery assistant on a french campsite is a worthwhile way to spend time. The fact is the ease of doing so is no more, the chance of broadening your horizons is hampered by the increased and unnecessary difficulties in getting the paperwork sorted. it may lead to less young people believing they are entitled to have and do whatever they want Good grief.

The tone does seem to be that other people's children benefitted from these things but my children are 'entitled' for wanting the same experiences. One of mine in particular had to put up with changes to GCSEs which were a disaster, A levels that were sorted on an algorithm, a disaster which was university application.

I wasn't going to post this either but the global company my husband worked for in MK has moved their operations to Europe as it's not viable for them trade in the UK anymore because of the new customs arrangements. I doubt it's the only one and my husband isn't even young. Luckily he has plenty of work but it is going to be so much more difficult for younger people with less skills to find alternative work

An ex student of mine who studied modern Greek and French at university had a job as an interpreter in Brussels and hasn’t had his contract renewed - reason - he has a U.K. passport. He is trying to get an EU one via his Cypriot heritage, but that doesn’t remove the heartache of having his dream job removed and having to jump through bureaucratic hurdles he didn’t have to when getting the job in the first place. Yes, maybe those jobs exist in the U.K, not sure where, but some people like to expand their horizons.

MaizieD I agree - I was not a Leaver either, but I try very hard to retain a sense of proportion by remembering the “Serenity prayer” about the wisdom of learning to tell the difference

MawBe

Actually I know very well what they do -as nieces, a nephew , daughters and sons of various friends and back in the day two of my cousins did it.
They also managed to fit in a fair bit of skiing and social life, so please don’t preach.

So you must be aware that it is quite a bit harder than being an Au Pair (Au Pair conditions are very strict and very clear- 30 hours max, and no sole charge of children for more than a few hours, no heavy housework, time for leisure and language school all paid for, etc)- so why call them 'entitled' and Gap Year Ya, à la Hurray Henry. I only commented because of the tone of your comment, so no preaching from me.

I am surprised you have never watched 'Chalet Girl'. The girl is actually not posh at all- and from a very modest home in the UK, trying to live her dream. With silly Bill Nawie (can't remember how to spell it).

And yes, chalet staff, and Au Pair girls- do have time to ski, snowboard, and more- in their free time- just like Au Pair girls.

Many youngsters who work in ski resorts, Hotels, ski shops, ski schools, and equivalent in Summer for sailing, surfing, etc ... do have very full time jobs, working very long hours. And as said, many stay and their jobs evolve with time. Many settle and stay- and take on very full time and responsible jobs and have families.

My three adult children all travelled abroad to work and enjoy other countries in their late teens/early twenties. Only one travelled to France (a country he had visited many times with us for holidays) and that was because he was doing his degree in French. Before university he chose to travel to Australia, Fiji and Hawaii, not the EU. My second son chose to live and work in Sri Lanka for two years. My daughter did her elective in The Philippines. They all wanted to experience a different culture, rather than the European culture.

And that is just great. It's good to have the choice.

Never heard of “Chalet Girl”, Kali2 ( do you mean Bill Nighy? )

My au pair jobs were far from typical -one certainly involved children, but also allowed me to take one of the ponies and spend my afternoon off riding off on my own through the Stadtwald around Stuttgart with just a “Lassie” type dog for company.
The other was with a lonely and still grieving middle aged widow near Fréjus - no children, but a spoilt little terrier dog and my job was to pander to “Madame’s” every whim , accompany her to her chalet in the Alps where I froze, having prepared for a summer on the Côte d’Azur , keep her company on shoe buying trips to N Italy, walk the pooch and drink with her throughout the (interminable) Alpine evenings!
Interesting and as “Madame” had driven lorries in WWII, taught me some choice vocabulary I would not have picked up from children.

Bill Nighy, yes.

Au Pair jobs have very specific rules and very specific descriptions of what is allowed or not. So in the cases you describe, at least the second one was not an Au Pair post.

But glad to hear you learnt some interesting language and expressions. The name Frejus still sends shivers down my spine- due to the 1956 dam disaster.

Did she say 'put*in' with the 'g' added or not?

youtu.be/Cr3CRzxIDt8

Corny as hell- but good fun.

maddyone

My three adult children all travelled abroad to work and enjoy other countries in their late teens/early twenties. Only one travelled to France (a country he had visited many times with us for holidays) and that was because he was doing his degree in French. Before university he chose to travel to Australia, Fiji and Hawaii, not the EU. My second son chose to live and work in Sri Lanka for two years. My daughter did her elective in The Philippines. They all wanted to experience a different culture, rather than the European culture.

Well yes that’s fine but many want to be inEurope ! It’s closer for a start It’s the fact that choice has been removed

There aren't the same language opportunities in America or Australia either

My last post seems to have disappeared.
Given that I was treated like a daughter, I think my French job was indeed technically “au pair” in the true sense of the term
The title comes from the French term au pair, meaning "at par" or "equal to", indicating that the relationship is intended to be one of equals: the au pair is intended to become a member of the family, albeit a temporary one, rather than a traditional domestic worker

Madame was the second wife (widow) of an immensely rich owner of one of the big biscuit manufacturers and his grown up family hated and looked down on her. I felt very sorry or her and although she had diamonds like pigeons eggs, she was lonely .
To answer your question, I think she sounded the “g” although “pute” featured more -especially behind the wheel of her very smart car!
We got along very well once I had established I couldn’t cook, so we ate out every day and with all the booze in the evenings, hot chocolate to keep out the Dauphinoise cold and the meals out I had a very jolly time - enlarging my vocabulary as well as my waistline!

Beckett

I would say the majority of GNs didn't have the opportunity to work abroad - were their "hopes dashed"? We somehow managed to fulfill our dreams and make good lives for ourselves.

It became the norm for young people to have a "gap year" to go "find themselves" now they can still work abroad they just have to show they have the skills required by that country - it may lead to less young people believing they are entitled to have and do whatever they want.

I'm assuming you are in favour of Brexit Beckett. I am also assuming you think this is an argument setting out good reasons for us being excluded from all the membership benefits we had.

It isn't. It just sounds bitter. Do you really not want the next generation to do better than the last?

MawBe

MaizieD

Hurdles there might well be, but they are not insurmountable.

We know that the 'hurdles' aren't insurmountable. We're just angry that they are there at all after so many years of their complete absence.

I would never agree with “complete absence”.
Language learning at secondary school level has been woeful for too many years, long before and entirely unconnected with Brexit, putting many young people at a disadvantage vis-a-vis their European counterparts who nearly always have a second or third language, whether or not that is their chosen area of study.
We have many foreign companies in and around MK and company policy is to require two languages (their own plus one) for progression to the high levels. I taught many students of French, German, Dutch, Indian and Japanese parents who also spoke excellent English. Our narrow system of choices at Secondary level, invariably discriminates against those who may wish go on to study science or engineering as two languages at GCSE level or even one language at A level does not fit into the curriculum.

Sorry MawBe but what is meant by
Language learning at secondary school level has been woeful for too many years, long before and entirely unconnected with Brexit,?

Language learning at secondary school level has been woeful for too many years, long before and entirely unconnected with Brexit,?

I have to agree with that. For too long many secondary schools offered only French, occasionally German as well.
It is not good here either as Welsh is compulsory up to GCSE level, French is taught but not compulsory for GCSE and the curriculum leaves little time for other languages which might have more universal appeal eg Spanish, Mandarin.

Apart from in Wales and Patagonia, Welsh is of very limited use at all although it should not be allowed to die out completely.

Going back in the thread, as far as pilots are concerned, there are many pilots in the EU and the UK who are unemployed because there are few career opportunities for them after qualifying. Spain, for instance, has a 20% unemployment rate for pilots.
It may seem an exciting career choice but surely young people should be encouraged to look at other career paths where there is a gap in the market?

What have we gained from it? [Thu 05-Aug-21 12:43:25]

Maisie there were good people who thought we would all benefit. I would see them as misguided but they were entitled to that opinion. But we see more, many more, who just seem to want to bring everyone down. No matter that they will not do as well as they might have or that fewer of the younger generation will do as well as they would have otherwise. They just seem to want to hold people down to where they see themselves. I have a feeling “Gap Yah” [Thu 05-Aug-21 12:00:43] sums up the reasons for many of the votes for leave. That and the power they felt they had.

MawBe but what is meant by
Language learning at secondary school level has been woeful for too many years, long before and entirely unconnected with Brexit. ,?
Obvious enough. The curriculum in England has become increasingly narrow and too often “options ” for GCSE will put languages and eg double science in opposition.
A language at GCSE is no longer compulsory - has not been for some years, I think that happened under Tony Blair.
MFL is perceived as a “hard” subject compared to other subjects so schools, ever eager to feature in the League tables will discourage students from exams where A and A* are harder to achieve. This has in some areas been compounded by the increasing numbers of “native speaker” candidates and because of this the calculations for setting grade boundaries are skewed to the detriment of non-native speakers.
It is virtually impossible to run an A level course with small classes as staffing is an issue, so with fewer than 12 students in a large (1200+ comprehensive) I would find second foreign language courses impossible to run even for keen and bright students who also wanted to study Maths or Science.
I could write a book on this- both from the timetabling perspective and that of the exam boards.

JaneJudge you may find this interesting
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47293927

Maw “ This has in some areas been compounded by the increasing numbers of “native speaker” candidates and because of this the calculations for setting grade boundaries are skewed to the detriment of non-native speakers. ”. Very true! I experienced this effect teaching a level Italian ! And I agree with your point about MFL provision. I meet so many people who say they wishes they had tried harder with languages at school!
But some young people learnt the language just by going and living abroad.

MaizieD I don't have a lack of understanding of what we have lost by leaving the EU, I just refuse to spend the rest of my life moaning about it because I can't change it. I voted Remain but I lost. End of story!

I agree.. if IS sad that opportunities for our grand-children are being dashed like this.

But can I just reiterate that the idea of a summer job in Ibiza may not be as "educational" as a year studying in Florence but it is still an adventure. Because of the work situation, these very "ordinary" jobs will not be available.

I had a great job and happy time working summers in a holiday area in Wales. I made good friends there and returned year after year. I started doing this very young (13?) and if I hadn't been well settled in I really can see the appeal of Europe and the opportunity to get to experience somewhere quite different without the costs of getting to Cambodia (or wherever).

My son in law and friend both did "menial" jobs in Europe, travelling and camping, and sofa surfing with new work mates.

Yes. It's a big loss I feel.

Oh, and Foxie - I don't know why you think people are moaning!
I'm not.