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The Anger of Parliament (temporary)

(114 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Fri 20-Aug-21 12:30:20

Whilst GNHQ remove the other thread in order to “look” at it, I thought we ought to continue with such an important subject as this is one of the worse crises we’ve experienced since Suez.

Doodledog Fri 20-Aug-21 12:35:33

I missed today's contributions, so it's difficult to know what has already been said, or where to come in, but I see that it has been admitted that the phone call to the Afghan Foreign Minister was never made.

Telling bare faced lies like this should be an automatic sacking offence if the liar is not honourable enough to resign.

I also don't know why the thread has been pulled, so sorry if any of this is inappropriate.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 20-Aug-21 12:37:07

It hasn’t been pulled exactly, GNHQ are “looking” at it😄😄😄

Dinahmo Fri 20-Aug-21 12:40:29

I find it strange the subject matter that some people consider to be bullying. Surely one should be broad shouldered enough to cope with some strong opinions. I had a message deleted some weeks ago - I couldn't remember what I'd written but know that I always try not to be offensive.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 20-Aug-21 12:42:27

What will happen now is that both Russia and China will now step into the sphere of influence.

History will show this to be a major turning point in world power and influence by the East.

MerylStreep Fri 20-Aug-21 12:42:35

Doodledog
Because it got very nasty. Very personal insults directed at named posters.

Alegrias1 Fri 20-Aug-21 12:43:35

Threads about threads will get deleted. Lets stick to the subject matter. Why MPs are so angry with the government 👍

Alegrias1 Fri 20-Aug-21 12:46:17

Raab is now being briefed against by people in the FO, it seems. He basically said that they tried to call the Afghan Foreign Minister but that person was too busy, but someone in the FO has said that no call was ever placed.

MerylStreep Fri 20-Aug-21 12:48:22

With reference to China. Biden has handed China the pot of gold. Afghanistan has ( probable) the richest deposits of lithium in the world. What do we need lithium for: batteries, and I don’t mean the Duracell kind.
China has just bought the mining rights of the second largest copper mine in the world. Where, Afghanistan.
I think China have us by the balls.

Casdon Fri 20-Aug-21 12:53:44

This, from today’s BBC bulletin:

‘And Colonel Richard Kemp, a former commander of British forces in Afghanistan, told the BBC News Channel the foreign secretary's decision not to call his Afghan counterpart "typifies" a "ministerial lack of urgency" over the 20-year conflict in the country.’

Raab has a lot to answer for, the serving forces commanders are unable to comment on political decisions so it’s good that Col. Kemp spoke out.

GrannyGravy13 Fri 20-Aug-21 12:54:12

The Taliban are armed with armoured vehicles and tanks discarded by US Troops
President Biden solely to blame, for this schoolboy error, which could end with U.K./US soldiers being injured/killed thanks to POTUS incompetence.

All MPs are rightly angry, the U.K. advised U.K. passport holders/nationals to leave Afghanistan back in April.

The Embassy in Kabul has been issuing visas since then, and is continuing to do
so from the airport.

U.K. Troops are patrolling outside the airport and helping folks into the compound in order for them to be processed and evacuated.

Not sure what else can be done under the current circumstances?

PippaZ Fri 20-Aug-21 12:55:11

There was a comment just before the thread was closed for inspection, saying that we should not have an enquiry while (I think it was) the evacuations are going on.

The enquiry must happen now. We have had too many request for enquiries put on the back burner but the lying continues.

I have been reading the Unlock Democracy email:

It’s been revealed that the Home Secretary, Priti Patel, failed to consult the Police Federation on her controversial plans to limit peaceful protests.

That’s despite Priti Patel telling the House of Commons that, “I have worked closely with the Police Federation in developing this bill.”

This refers to the Bill Patel is bringing in against peaceful protest. How have we got to this point? If this is passed and we wanted to protest against the governments handling of the evacuation we would not be able to.

How much more do we want to risk our democracy? We need to look into these lies now.

lemongrove Fri 20-Aug-21 12:58:16

Nothing more can be done than is being doing, although I see Biden is stung by the criticism and is sending more planes to get people out, which we are also doing.
Meryl what you say is very true, China and Russia will be eager to mine all possibilities for themselves there.

lemongrove Fri 20-Aug-21 12:59:45

That’s a whole other thread PippaZ for discussion of the police bill.

GrannyGravy13 Fri 20-Aug-21 13:00:19

I thought that now was not the time for an inquiry into the Afghanistan situation PippaZ I would rather all energies and eyes were concentrated on the ongoing emergency than time spent in front of enquiry boards.

There should definitely be an enquiry though.

JaneJudge Fri 20-Aug-21 13:03:13

I think you raise a very good point Meryl.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 20-Aug-21 13:03:56

This period since 2000 will certainly come back to hit us - the U.K. in a big way.

We entered numerous wars which not only resulted in death and destruction but ensured that we helped to breed determined enemies and terrorists - including home grown ones.

We rejected the biggest economic and political influencers - the EU and managed at the same time to antagonise what we always thought of (very naively) as a special relationship with the USA.

At present we appear to be a sovereign country with no close relationships, facing a major world power with whom at present we have a very strained relationship.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 20-Aug-21 13:07:27

PippaZ

There was a comment just before the thread was closed for inspection, saying that we should not have an enquiry while (I think it was) the evacuations are going on.

The enquiry must happen now. We have had too many request for enquiries put on the back burner but the lying continues.

I have been reading the Unlock Democracy email:

It’s been revealed that the Home Secretary, Priti Patel, failed to consult the Police Federation on her controversial plans to limit peaceful protests.

That’s despite Priti Patel telling the House of Commons that, “I have worked closely with the Police Federation in developing this bill.”

This refers to the Bill Patel is bringing in against peaceful protest. How have we got to this point? If this is passed and we wanted to protest against the governments handling of the evacuation we would not be able to.

How much more do we want to risk our democracy? We need to look into these lies now.

Everything is let’s wait and see, or no time because of pressure. The need for enquiries are piling up. They can’t resist it for ever, although I suppose it gives them time to destroy or “lose” their phones etc with the evidence gone.

MaizieD Fri 20-Aug-21 13:14:42

lemongrove

That’s a whole other thread PippaZ for discussion of the police bill.

Threads meander, lemon and Pippa's contribution had some pertinence. So many deferred inquires...

All of a piece with deferred planning for just such an emergency as the current one. The Doha Agreement was signed 18 months ago. Plenty of time for the FO to be working on planning for differing scenarios arising from the US pullout of troops. As one would surely expect them to do.

But I have read, in a different context, that Johnson has no liking for contingency plans, working on the dubious grounds that planning for a contingency is more likely to activate the contingency planned for hmm.

Like Theresa May, I am 'surprised' that our intelligence failed to notice that since the signing the Taliban had been setting up agreements with the local tribal leaders in preparation for the US withdrawal and a rapid move to gain control of the country..

Whitewavemark2 Fri 20-Aug-21 13:16:03

As president of the G7, a founding member of NATO and with a permanent seat on the security council, what on Earth have the government been doing since the Trump agreement?

We should have been in the driving seat leading the strategy and not snoozing on a sun bed.

lemongrove Fri 20-Aug-21 13:20:33

It will be strained for a while under Biden, but he’s unlikely to serve a second term ( unless he pulls something brilliant out of his hat.)
We got into Afghanistan purely to assist the US in their quest to rid it of Bin Laden and cohorts, as did some other countries. It was successful as we know, but the allied force then had to stay to make sure they didn’t return and to keep the taliban at bay.A lot of progress was made and a lot of good done in that time.I really hope that people /taliban there have moved on a bit ( probably too hopeful there) but you never know.
The main problems seem to be that the taliban is not a cohesive force, but tribally divided in all kinds of ways.Some are more amenable than others, and some seem to have come straight from around the year 600.

lemongrove Fri 20-Aug-21 13:22:36

We have never been in the driving seat as regards Afghanistan.

MerylStreep Fri 20-Aug-21 13:25:36

JaneJudge
The US were aware of these deposits in 2010.
They called it the SaudiArabia of lithium. We all know how Saudi has had the world by the balls because of oil.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 20-Aug-21 13:32:40

The G7 is a formal high profile group of wealthy economies which provides a venue for discussion of, coordination of and agreeing strategy for tackling major global issues.

Afghanistan is clearly that.

This government has presidency and failed to tackle the subject at a G7 summit before this week.

It failed jut as it has failed on so much more.

lemongrove Fri 20-Aug-21 13:34:03

MaizieD It’s not lack of time ( for contingency planning)
Any and all countries with personnel in Afghanistan have had time and will have made plans.Biden asked for extra time to leave ( it would have been May under Trumps deal with the taliban) then Biden decided it would be done by the end of August.The taliban acted early and tore through the country like a dose of salts reaching Kabul and taking over.
Presumably the deal was that they waited until all foreigners were out of the country before making a move ( to power share with Afghan government.) That didn’t happen of course.
All the plans in the world by any country couldn’t do a thing given what happened.
All anyone can do now is to do what they are doing already.