Fingers crossed for Pen Farthing and Nowzad

NotSpaghetti

You are quite wrong Maudi.
I am pleased if available space is going to save someone!
Here is a US rescue plane doing just that! 600 in the hold.
Thank goodness!

That plane would normally be stacked to the top with cargo. Do you think that scaffolding should have been erected so that the people could sit in layers? Looking at the photo I reckon you could probably get about 4 layers of people in there.

Passenger planes have a cargo hold below the seating deck(s) and probably don't have much spare room after taking into account the passengers' luggage on a normal flight.

I hadn't realised Where would they sit? Would you put them down there in cages? was actually a question Zoe as I'm afraid to say it sounded a bit silly to me.

If it was serious, apologies.
So here's my answer - if it was me I'd sit my family on the floor if need be. Presumably we would need some secured rope or similar to be reasonably stable during take off/landing.
I don't see it as impossible.

NotSpaghetti

I hadn't realised Where would they sit? Would you put them down there in cages? was actually a question Zoe as I'm afraid to say it sounded a bit silly to me.

If it was serious, apologies.
So here's my answer - if it was me I'd sit my family on the floor if need be. Presumably we would need some secured rope or similar to be reasonably stable during take off/landing.
I don't see it as impossible.

I can assure you it is impossible. But it's fine for you to disagree if you want.

Not remotely silly of me to ask if you expected them to go in cages. But it would be the only way to go.

You think secured rope would suffice for human beings to sit in a hold of a commercial plane?

That's not silly. That's just insanity

The commercial aeroplane chartered by Nowzad is an Airbus A330.

You can't put people in the hold full stop. I'll add a bit more as a bystander -

If anyone were to die in the hold there would be civil lawsuits against - let's see. Nowzad for supplying the plane? The charter company? Airbus? British Government for allowing people to travel as animals?

I am taking a guess here, but it would be inhuman to allow children to be treated as baggage, it's not just the visuals it's the logistics of toilets on a long flight. You're going to have dogs and cats relieving themselves and you'll have people sitting in it.

NotSpaghetti, you may not see it as impossible, but can you imagine telling a toddler to sit still while they are roped down in the hold of a plane? The pregnant woman that landed in Germany and gave birth on the plane - hold on to a bit of rope, love, you'll be fine ...

I understood the animals and carers had been stuck near the airport for eight hours. My husband said he had read that all the animals were going to be euthanized. Don't know if that is true or not.

Isn't the Airbus A330 the one that was going to put sleeping pods in the hold?

Just saying.

AGAA4

It seems that given a choice of you and your family being shot by the Taliban or the lesser risk of getting out in the hold of a plane, I would think many would choose the latter.
Seeing distressed children in those crowds at the airport makes me angry and upset.
Children and parents first before cats and dogs and I do like animals but if it were between a child and a dog I would put the child's safety first.

I agree AGAA4 but we are obviously in a minority on this thread.

Just heard there’s a very credible risk of a terrorist attack by Isis at the airport and they’re advising people to keep away. Apparently Isis hate the Taliban. What a mess. I can’t believe these evil groups care so little about their fellow humans. Just evil to the core.

NotSpaghetti I’m totally with you. I adore animals but children must come first every time.

I’d just like to add that years ago I used to watch a programme called ‘Monkey Life’ about a sanctuary in Dorset run by an American guy called Jim. He and his wife, along with trusted helper Jeremy used to travel the world rescuing chimps,Orang-utans and assorted primates. Often when a chimp or Orangutan was in the hold Jeremy would be filmed keeping them company. I’m not disputing what anyone has said but, obviously humans can travel in the hold.

The animals will have to be euthanized if they can't get them on the flight that has been chartered. They can't leave them in crates on the airfield. I've posted earlier in this thread there is a 90 minute window for the plane landing (with supplies that are badly needed) and taking off with Pen, his staff, their families and any others that have the papers in place and have been authorised to leave. If they can get the animals on the flight in that time it's an absolute win for this Operation and moral will be sky high. If not - There is a small clip of film of the animals in their crates on the trucks waiting to be allowed onto the airfield with water being sprayed into a crate for a dog to drink. Temperatures on the ground in Kabul is 30² and they've been there waiting for hours.

Daily Express are running this story - discussing Farthing's flight, in particular, the politician (James Heappey) said: "It can land. We're aware of this flight that has been chartered by a polish operator.

"We're aware of the plan but as Dominic (Dyer) said, the issue is getting Pen into the airfield and there are some hard realities about that."

Heappey explained in the next 24 hours, 11 RAF flights will be going to Kabul airport to evacuate as many civilians as possible.

This would make 3,000 seats available for evacuees but the minister explained capacity wasn't the problem, it was being given access to the airfield and security checks on personal being allowed onto the flights. >end quote

It's not about numbers it's about getting through the security to ensure the people are who they say they are, that they are entitled to come to the UK.

I've made a point on Twitter that Pen Farthing, a Royal Marine, with SC - Security Clearance - has employed these people and has vouched for them, so surely it would be feasible to get these people out and process further down the line.

If anything should happen to Pen, I despair for this Government and in particular Ben Wallace - there'll be a queue of people following him down the road kicking his arse for the rest of his life.

*Also, Pen's wife is Norwegian, worked for a Norwegian Charity in Kabul with Afghanistan Women Athletes; the Norwegian Government told her to leave last week - it's not like Pen sent her off to safety while he remained behind, it's not like the British Government had any hand in getting her out. Pen said in an interview I saw that his wife is her own person and makes her own decisions. As it should be.

Just to make it really simple, this quote can be put at the end of any more "Children before animals" posts

Heappey explained in the next 24 hours, 11 RAF flights will be going to Kabul airport to evacuate as many civilians as possible.

This would make 3,000 seats available for evacuees but the minister explained capacity wasn't the problem, it was being given access to the airfield and security checks on personal being allowed onto the flights. >end quote

tickingbird yes Jeremy did used to travel in the hold but that was one man and I doubt very much that he was there during take off but in a proper seat

The situation is getting utterly desperate now. It's heartbreaking. Let's just drop all the humans v animals debate - it's not helping. How can you not have compassion for what Pen, the staff and these poor animals are going through right now? It is literally a life or death situation and every minute which ticks by brings them closer to the latter.

I have heard that the charter plane has had to be cancelled because of the impossibility of it getting into Kabul airport at present. Whether that really means cancelled, or simply postponed, I don’t know. I have seen enough of humans to prefer animals, thank you. What anyone on here thinks of me for that I really don’t care. It’s reported that one of these humans is likely to be wearing a suicide belt. It’s a fair assumption none of the animals will be.

I don't honestly think any of us want to leave the animals behind either to be honest.

The whole situation is dire.
Get them out.
Process them later.

well I feel really sad about the poor animals

Me too Jane

And me.

I am sad for all waiting to leave.

And now there's been an explosion at the airport - reported suicide bomber, with casualties also reported.

news.sky.com/story/afghanistan-armed-forces-minister-says-desperate-afghans-cannot-be-moved-to-bring-ex-marines-animal-rescue-staff-to-front-of-the-queue-12390846

NotSpaghetti

AGAA4

It seems that given a choice of you and your family being shot by the Taliban or the lesser risk of getting out in the hold of a plane, I would think many would choose the latter.
Seeing distressed children in those crowds at the airport makes me angry and upset.
Children and parents first before cats and dogs and I do like animals but if it were between a child and a dog I would put the child's safety first.

I agree AGAA4 but we are obviously in a minority on this thread.

I agree too but if it's a case of people not being allowed in the hold then the rescued animals might as well be in there.
Although we do have so many abandoned and neglected animals which need loving homes in this country already.

Callistemon

NotSpaghetti

AGAA4

It seems that given a choice of you and your family being shot by the Taliban or the lesser risk of getting out in the hold of a plane, I would think many would choose the latter.
Seeing distressed children in those crowds at the airport makes me angry and upset.
Children and parents first before cats and dogs and I do like animals but if it were between a child and a dog I would put the child's safety first.

I agree AGAA4 but we are obviously in a minority on this thread.

I agree too but if it's a case of people not being allowed in the hold then the rescued animals might as well be in there.
Although we do have so many abandoned and neglected animals which need loving homes in this country already.

And yet thousands of pounds being made by people breeding dogs and cats and so many reports of dogs being snatched from owners. Rehome don't buy. I do judge people who tell me they've bought dogs from breeders, paid £££'s for them. My opinion of them dives.

I'm watching Al Jazeera news with live feed from the Kabul Airport explosion and feel sick to my stomach. Utter anguish for all of this horrid, horrid mess.

Blondiescot

And now there's been an explosion at the airport - reported suicide bomber, with casualties also reported.

Well that is what the ISIS die bards warned…