@JaneJudge
If Kier Starmer is a robot, is Boris Johnson a malfunctioning one?
No, he's a clown!
Our Welfare State. Is it broken?
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News & politics
Is Starmer finally getting his team together to fight back?
(196 Posts)Yesterday Keir Starmer was his usual self, knowledgable, patient with childlike behaviour, and cutting to the truth.
But I found Rachel Reeves (Shadow Chancellor), came up with all I could want and I wasn't the only one to notice. Paul Waugh, in his Huffpost email, was full of praise for the double act.
Starmer made all the right points. He cannily picked up on the fact that Johnson’s new plan would not only breach his manifesto pledges on tax, but it would also even breach his manifesto pledge on social care.
He did comment that it lacked drama. Something I think many of us have been hoping for and not seen. But then came Rachel Reeves. After a lack-lustre performance from Jesse Norman who tried to convince the Tory MPs that black is white and that this was very much a Tory policy in she stepped.
She used the soundbites Johnson et all are so well known for. When talking about the NHS and care workers she shouted over the Tories “last year the public clapped them, this year the Tories taxed them”. My heart began to lift a little.
Shouting successfully over the Tory pantomime she called out “this unfair, job taxing, manifesto-shredding, tax bombshell”. This sounded like politics, sometimes condemned, but in this instance getting over what many have seen to be the case.
She even did a "Johnson" and had the Labour MPs yelling ‘No!’ after a string of questions on the government's plan’s flaws, one of which had been handed to her by Sajid Javid’s blustering meets with the media: “Will it clear the NHS backlog this parliament? No! called back the opposition "And the health secretary says no.” she carefully added.
Great though it was to see the heart back in the LP she also filled out a little of what Starmer had hinted at re the Labour Party Plans. Starmer's agreement with ex-Chancellor Osbourne's "those with the broadest shoulders" widened out to "those who get their income from financial assets, stocks and shares, sales of property, pension income, annuity income, interest income, property rental income, inheritance income". As Paul Waugh noted, this list may be long enough to raise the money needed and do away with this iniquitous levy.
Those who are left or left-leaning please watch this speech. It may be a landmark; at the very least it will raise your spirits I think.
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000zkst/house-of-commons-08092021 - 08/09/2021 at about 1:15:10 in.
Oofy
MaizieD
I can’t let your saying Mark Drakeford is popular pass without comment. Not from where I’m sitting, he isn’t
You'll have to take that up with the Guardian, Oofy. I assumed that they'd researched the piece properly.
Harmonypuss
@JaneJudge
If Kier Starmer is a robot, is Boris Johnson a malfunctioning one?
No, he's a clown!
If Johnson is a clown he is one of the evil clowns that inhabit horror films and nightmares.
Jeremy Corbyn leads huge city protest against Liverpool arms fair
The former Labour leader spoke to a crowd of hundreds after a march through Liverpool
Meanwhile Starmer's Labour
Luke Akehurst
Mark Drakeford is respected, electorate surveys in Wales confirm that. Whether they agree with his politics or not is a different matter, but the majority of people in Wales rate him as an individual, and more importantly at the moment, trust his judgement. We are lucky.
Yes we are Casdon
I would never vote for labour again after the way Tony Blair took us to war . The way Keir Keir starmer took to the knee the way the labour leadership failed to provide an effective opposition
katy1950
I would never vote for labour again after the way Tony Blair took us to war . The way Keir Keir starmer took to the knee the way the labour leadership failed to provide an effective opposition
Curious as to what led you to vote Labour in the first place?
Well, we have had a collection of opinions - including the usual "my opinion is a fact" ones, and the "I don't like this Labour, I want a different Labour" ones.
However, it does seem that Labour is beginning to put down the basis for their next manifesto. This seems to me to be what an opposition does. I have just watched Jonathon Ashworth talking about the changes they would put in place for care. Such a structure has been designed to take pressure off the NHS. I think we must acknowledge Labour have a plan and the Conservatives don't - unless it is to run the NHS and Care into the private sector. Whatever it is, they haven't told us.
I appreciate that those who would never vote other than Conservative, even if they put a clown seeking to be a dictator up as their "leader", will not accept this, but it does seem to be the case.
Starmer needs biology lessons.
Ilovecheese
But Labour M.P.s shouting out "no" is just as childish as Tory M.Ps shouting.
Glad she gave some more information of what could be Labour's intentions,
"finanancial assets, stocks and shares, sales of property, pension income, annuity income, interest income, property rental income, inheritance income"
That would be a much fairer solution.
But this is the same Rachel Reeves who wanted to cut benefit payments even more than the Tories.
I can't take what she says now seriously because of what she said in the past. How do I get over that?
It's a case of that was then,this is now situations change and so do opinions, a decent politician is one who (to me anyway) is prepared to stick to what's right rather than party "line" and is prepared to be fluid and listen to what's actually happening in society , not what the leaders tells them to listen to! Debate is the mother of change. We all know what happens when an iron fisted leader lays down the rules and woe betide anyone who dares question?...... clue's in the"iron"bit....
Young Labour Chair
Targeted: Jess Barnard has been the victim of a hate campaign by the Labour Party.
“Well, that’s all right then” – said nobody at all after Labour apologised to Jess Barnard for emailing her with a ridiculous Notice of Investigation at one o’clock in the morning.
The party had been planning disciplinary action against the Young Labour chair on the pretext that she was wrong to challenge transphobia. Think about that.
But party officers took a sharp U-turn – not because they acted in error, as they tried to claim, but because Ms Barnard reported the attack to her lawyers and they threatened court action against the party.
Skwawkbox has claimed that the email was demanded by a senior staff member who is carrying out a vendetta against Ms Barnard to punish her for standing up against the party’s attempts at character assassination against her, for standing in solidarity with the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, and to prevent her speaking at Labour’s conference later this month. The evidence is here.
Possibly worse than this is the fact that the email was deliberately sent to a young woman who has already suffered considerable mental distress because of interventions by Labour Party officers – at one in the morning on World Suicide Prevention Day. Did whoever was responsible think it was funny to do that?
Strong words indeed if misguided grany. Name calling does nought to progress discussion. Corbyn was a non runner for so many labour supporters, I saw him as having more than one foot in the past, and representing very little of what labour is about in the modern world and even less of anyone not residing in the South East of England . I doubt he'd even ventured oop North, unless he classes Watford as north? Glad he'd gone, we need someone who's got half an inkling about the issues for the whole of UK, not just"that London". I really hope Starmer &co can build a strong group to outwit and reveal to those on fence just how much damage Tories do to us all whenever they get in the hot seat. We should be saying"never again" to the old order of Society destroyers .
I think he'd turn up to the opening of an envelope if he thought he'd get on the telly! It's so very easy to tell "what about the workers?!" ......if you've never actually worked and your life doesn't depend on wages, strikes are easy for those who don't rely on work to live
Lots voted for Jeremy in 2017 nearly won if not for internal sabotage lots voted in 2019 Many people wanted what Corbyn offer something radical something this country needs but were denied Now We back to rightwing Blairites and Mandelson So nothing is going to change.
growstuff
By the way, what objection do you have to any politician saying that his/her government won't let people linger on benefits? I don't think many people believe that people should be able to opt out of work and receive state funding for doing nothing.
Do you really cling to that old load of junk?! The teeniest of percentage of folks on benefits actually "choose'" to live in abject poverty , don't be so naive, you sound like some upperclass twit jealous that you have to get up every day when someone else actually gets help to survive when they CANNOT get a decent job that pays enough to actually live on! You can tell you've never had to fight for anything, really fight?! Being on benefits is a soul destroying misery, existence not life, no present,no future, no hope. Im suprised more don't contemplate suicide. I suppose youreoneof those who think that only earners in excess of £40k/annum should be allowed to breed too? Get with the program
Grany, you really do sound like some far left idealistic knit yer own knickers wannabe leftie! Having family with first hand experience of what communism is all about, in real time, really- you really don't know what you're talking about
^ I doubt he'd even ventured oop North, ^
Not fair, Gabrielle56. He came to the Durham Miners Gala. And wasn't he recently in Liverpool? How far north would you like him to go?
Gabrielle56
growstuff
By the way, what objection do you have to any politician saying that his/her government won't let people linger on benefits? I don't think many people believe that people should be able to opt out of work and receive state funding for doing nothing.
Do you really cling to that old load of junk?! The teeniest of percentage of folks on benefits actually "choose'" to live in abject poverty , don't be so naive, you sound like some upperclass twit jealous that you have to get up every day when someone else actually gets help to survive when they CANNOT get a decent job that pays enough to actually live on! You can tell you've never had to fight for anything, really fight?! Being on benefits is a soul destroying misery, existence not life, no present,no future, no hope. Im suprised more don't contemplate suicide. I suppose youreoneof those who think that only earners in excess of £40k/annum should be allowed to breed too? Get with the program
Well Said Gabrielle
MaizieD
^ I doubt he'd even ventured oop North, ^
Not fair, Gabrielle56. He came to the Durham Miners Gala. And wasn't he recently in Liverpool? How far north would you like him to go?
True Maizie
Gabrielle56
Grany, you really do sound like some far left idealistic knit yer own knickers wannabe leftie! Having family with first hand experience of what communism is all about, in real time, really- you really don't know what you're talking about
I am proud lefty A socialist not communist. 
representing very little of what labour is about in the modern world
It would be interesting to know what you think that 'Labour is about in the modern world', Gabrielle56. You sound as though you think that Corbyn's mild Socialism is full blown Communism. But, confusingly, you sound a bit 'up the workers' too..
BTW you are badly misjudging growstuff
Gabrielle56
Strong words indeed if misguided grany. Name calling does nought to progress discussion. Corbyn was a non runner for so many labour supporters, I saw him as having more than one foot in the past, and representing very little of what labour is about in the modern world and even less of anyone not residing in the South East of England . I doubt he'd even ventured oop North, unless he classes Watford as north? Glad he'd gone, we need someone who's got half an inkling about the issues for the whole of UK, not just"that London". I really hope Starmer &co can build a strong group to outwit and reveal to those on fence just how much damage Tories do to us all whenever they get in the hot seat. We should be saying"never again" to the old order of Society destroyers .
I can assure you Corbyn came North. He spoke to crowds of people outside the Sage in Gateshead and received a tremendous welcome and great approval. He spoke at a meeting Newcastle City Hall and was given a standing ovation. The North loved him.
Starmer on the other hand is regarded as a two faced, fence sitting Remainer who never steps outside the Westminster bubble.
Yes the North loved him so much the seat I live in - 50 years held by labour - turned conservative in 2019, so no that's not the true picture.
I assume Corbyn’s tremendous welcome up north was not during a lockdown
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