AUKUS

You'll be ok - HMS Vigil is twice the size of any other nuclear submarine ?

Apparently so, we have a dear friend who was a submariner and they are not a fan of the depictions of submarine life or the size of vigil he compared it to the TARDIS

Parsley3

Spot on Alegrias1. You have explained what is really going on but heyho! Let’s be distracted by getting one over on the French. Just off to do a made in China lateral flow test.

Of course France is such a Aragon of virtue. Still they were never really our “friends” were they. As long as you’re happy for China to continue with their style of Imperialism, as they did once before, the world should be a better place???

Paragon

Let’s get Fiji or any English speaking country beginning with F to join in and it can be FUKUS.

The Chinese Empire lasted for more than 2000 years since the whole of China was united under the Emperor Qin in 221BC, although China was an ancient civilisation going back much further. Since 1949 and Socialism it has become stronger.

The Egyptian Empire lasted a little over 3000 years and the Roman Empire around 1500 years. In comparison the British Empire lasted a very short time.

There is no reason to suppose that the Chinese "Empire" will end anytime soon and we are going to have to learn to deal with it. Nuclear fueled subs are probably not the answer.

Still they were never really our “friends” were they.

Speak for yourself.

And if you think that sending a couple of 21st Century nuclear gunboats to the China Seas is going to curb Chinese expansionism, you're going to be very disappointed.

Its a worry really, if you express any concern about the way foreign policy is being conducted, then you must be a Commie who wants China to take over the world. Probably best to just intern us all, just to be on the safe side.

vegansrock

Let’s get Fiji or any English speaking country beginning with F to join in and it can be FUKUS.

??

lemongrove

Alegrias1

Bit of a comprehension issue here, I suspect.

Number of nuclear subs Australia currently have - 0

Number of nuclear subs China currently have - 14

Number of nuclear subs Russia currently have - 45

Number of nuclear subs the US currently have - 72.

Number of nuclear subs the UK have - 11

Australia's one or two won't matter any more than a gnat's bite to the Chinese. Send one or two of the US ones over to the China Sea if we have to. This is to make the Aussies feel important, that's all.

Wrong numbers there Aleg go and google again.
The US have less than 20 subs with nuclear missile capabilities (Trident)
( according to two sources) although they have many subs.
We have 6.Perhaps we will all have to google again as it does depend where you look.?
Whatever the ‘true’ numbers Australia feel they need them and have asked for help to make them and we and the US are happy to, it’s a great deal for us!

I thought that the idea of nuclear fueled subs was that they were completely silent when under water and could not be traced. The Aussies have diesel fueled subs which have to come up in order to be re-fueled and they are noisy.

I don't think that at the moment there is any question of nuclear missiles.

Of course France is such a Aragon of virtue. Still they were never really our “friends” were they.

Speak for yourself, Lincslass. I am still a fan of the Auld Alliance.

Dinahmo

The Chinese Empire lasted for more than 2000 years since the whole of China was united under the Emperor Qin in 221BC, although China was an ancient civilisation going back much further. Since 1949 and Socialism it has become stronger.

The Egyptian Empire lasted a little over 3000 years and the Roman Empire around 1500 years. In comparison the British Empire lasted a very short time.

There is no reason to suppose that the Chinese "Empire" will end anytime soon and we are going to have to learn to deal with it. Nuclear fueled subs are probably not the answer.

The history of China is very interesting as they seem to alternate from being outgoing, exploring, interacting with other countries and then becoming more insular again.

After breaking a treaty with the UK on Hong Kong, if China take Taiwan by force, the world has to wonder who is next (when China initially uses intimidation and is already 'confronting' other nations), and other nations are waking up to that.

History in the last century shows sitting back/appeasement does not work out when a nation believes that it has a god given right to take other nations, one way or another.

Parsley3

^Of course France is such a Aragon of virtue. Still they were never really our “friends” were they.^

Speak for yourself, Lincslass. I am still a fan of the Auld Alliance.

Why are you a fan, Parsley3? Militarily at least, France gained considerably more than Scotland from the "Auld Alliance". Every time France whistled, the Scots faithfully provided troops to fight for them against the English on the Continent - with little subsequent benefit - or invaded England to ease the pressure on the French and got thumped for their pains. Remember Flodden?

If Parsley3 can remember Flodden s/he must be considerably older than anyone else on GN.

Good parallel with today's discussion though. Expecting military support through international treaty doesn't tend to go the way you think it will. Better to concentrate on how alliances influence culture, language and architecture, among other things, hence having long term effects on a country's culture in general.

So France has withdrawn their ambassadors from America and Australia. Is France throwing a hissy fit, or it this a justified reaction?

It makes us here in Australia a sitting target for China which is a worry. They will get us one way or another. Unfortunately our foreign minister clearly is not blessed with a great deal of brainpower and also the tact and discretion gene passed her by. The way they have handled things is atrocious, the French have every right to feel angry.

If I had a £60 billion contract with somebody and then they said no thanks, we're not paying that after all, then I'd be pretty peeved. Especially if I found out why during a press conference which I wasn't invited to.

The French press picked this up in January that this contract was becoming dodgy due to the French not being able to deliver on time, over budget and it was looking in danger to being cancelled, so it should not have been that much of a surprise.
China's development of their military power left Australia with little option especially with the French failing on the set contract, if they were further along with the build this probably would not have happened.
Obviously they would throw a strop.

It was a joke Bodach but a poor one, I admit.

maddyone

So France has withdrawn their ambassadors from America and Australia. Is France throwing a hissy fit, or it this a justified reaction?

Throwing a hissy fit. It’s all down to the money they’ve lost, although a deal was signed in 2016, am sure there will be monetary reparations from Australia. Still at the end of the day Australia’s choice.

Very saddened by the infantile anti-France sentiment expressed by some in this thread. They never seem to have never left the school playground...

Visgir1

The French press picked this up in January that this contract was becoming dodgy due to the French not being able to deliver on time, over budget and it was looking in danger to being cancelled, so it should not have been that much of a surprise.
China's development of their military power left Australia with little option especially with the French failing on the set contract, if they were further along with the build this probably would not have happened.
Obviously they would throw a strop.

Thank you for that insight. See they only tell you what they want you to know. No surprise Australia gave up.

Urmstongran

After breaking a treaty with the UK on Hong Kong, if China take Taiwan by force, the world has to wonder who is next (when China initially uses intimidation and is already 'confronting' other nations), and other nations are waking up to that.

History in the last century shows sitting back/appeasement does not work out when a nation believes that it has a god given right to take other nations, one way or another.

Neither does intervention. Vietnam and Afghanistan?

maddyone

So France has withdrawn their ambassadors from America and Australia. Is France throwing a hissy fit, or it this a justified reaction?

I think it is justified - someone should have had the manners to include them in the talks and perhaps involve them in some of the future processes.

GrannyGravy13

Hopefully it might make China think twice about world domination.

The words snowball and hell come to mind, sadly.