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Biological men in woman only spaces

(209 Posts)
BlueRuby Fri 17-Sep-21 12:41:07

I was in a public womens toilet the other day and a couple of young women started talking to me over the basins and hand dryers. They were talking about men "self identifying" as women, and being able to use women only spaces, not that we have many safe spaces, but they mentioned changing rooms and toilets. I said I didn't like the idea of trans men, particularly men self identifying as women (so NOT those who have been through the whole surgical transitioning process) being allowed in those spaces. I am appalled that a man can decide to throw on a skirt one day and go to womens changing rooms and toilets. It is a risk. I genuinely sympathise with those who are going through the transitioning process - it must be hard to feel that you've been born into the wrong body. But I think the trans community has a very loud voice, despite being a tiny percentage of the population, because they are men and have been socialised, as men, to believe they should be heard. Their "rights" and "freedoms" seem to be regarded as more important than the rights and freedoms of biological women, who have had to fight for every little step forward. A biological man can never be a biological woman because you can't change DNA. Going back to the two young women, they were surprised when I said I didn't want biological men in women only spaces, and said they hadn't thought of the safety aspect. This is a difficult subject - ranging from the intensely personal to international sports - which I believe needs to be discussed openly and honestly, with no bullying to silence people. I'm pretty fed up with politicans, "influencers" and commentators jumping on the trans bandwagon and telling me my rights to safety and privacy don't matter. I fully expect some vitriol from some people, but women's rights are being eroded and we need to think about this.

Doodledog Wed 22-Sep-21 18:26:01

Here is yet another case of men pushing their way into women-only spaces

However much they might think that they have a right to be there, how difficult would it be to apply sensitivity and consider the women who really don't want them? It's hard not to conclude that the interlopers are doing so to make a point.

Mollygo Wed 22-Sep-21 18:59:35

Doodledog Too difficult for those who see it as their right to be wherever they want.
A bit like little children who have been brought up not to take no for an answer.
I think you’re right about making a point; the point being that they are confident that their actions will be allowed and even endorsed by me and those women who are still moved to put men first. Sick really.

Mollygo Wed 22-Sep-21 19:10:46

By men, not by me!

Bridgeit Thu 23-Sep-21 17:45:22

Are there any reported cases of women who having fully transitioned into male ( has that been possible?) requesting acceptance to male toilets spaces etc. I have the feeling that if this has happened the trans person would be even more vulnerable to abuse from males, my point is that males & females alike are vulnerable when confronted with males who are of a certain mindset.

Doodledog Thu 23-Sep-21 18:31:38

I agree, Bridgeit, which is why transmen rarely feature on threads like these - biological females are usually less of the threat than biological males.

There is also the issue of urinals - if a transman doesn't have a penis (ie is not fully transitioned) it will be obvious, and could place him at more risk.

varian Fri 24-Sep-21 19:15:54

Some transmen fo have a fully functional artificial penis. Those who don't can use the cubicles in the men's loos.

BlueRuby Tue 16-Nov-21 15:09:48

VioletSky we certainly should be safe anywhere but we are not. And saying we should be doesn't make it so. The womens' toilet is symbolic of female only spaces, not the be all and end all of a woman's safety. In my distant youth I have used them as a place of safety when receiving unwanted attention from a man. I suspect many women have done so too. Is your concentration on the womens' toilet issue a smoke screen? I know it's difficult to really see someone else's point of view. "Walk in my shoes" comes to mind. I suspect the majority of women find the idea of losing their hard won rights to transwomen is unacceptable, but many feel too frightened to face the vitriol and spite of the very loud (tiny minority) male voice in the transgender discussion.

threexnanny Tue 16-Nov-21 17:50:24

I have recently been for a routine mammogram. The invitation stated that I would only be dealt with by women. It seems likely that the NHS will only be able to guarantee that we will be dealt with by people who 'identify as women' in the future. That being the case it could affect take -up for anyone uncomfortable undressing, and being handled, by someone they perceive to not be female and yet not a doctor/ nurse.