Uncouth Angela Rayner doing Labour no favours

I don't like hearing anybody described as "scum" but it is a word often used by people to describe horrible people who commit horrible acts, often against vulnerable people.

I suppose it could be argued by some, me included, that this government has done some pretty awful things to vulnerable people and been involved in some pretty dodgy dealings. However, I think it is unwise, unnecessary and counter-productive to use this sort of inflammatory language. I agree with her sentiments but, because of the way in which she chose to voice them, they have picked up with glee and drowned in outrage.

GrannyGravy13

eazybee

How many more times?
Accent is not choice of language.
If Mrs. Rayner posted that message on Gransnet it would be taken down as 'not in the spirit of Gransnet.'

Totally agree

Quite.

if exactly the same language had been used by someone (especially a man) with either a 'posh' or an 'educated' accent, the outcry would have been far, far smaller.

No, I think it would have become quite threatening.
And just to add I am not impressed by the politician, regrettably Tory, who described her speech as C***.
So many more words to choose; why sink to her level.

what does C* mean?

eazybee

When you deliver a speech it should be in the plainest most accessible words possible.
Regional dialects are unknown to many; most of my family came from the north and I never heard it used.
I would consider 'you lot' a rude form of address in a formal speech.

Maybe I know incredibly clever people but no one I know has ever been confused when I've said youse, I think it is actually very obvious what is meant.

What does youse mean ?

trisher

The H of C should represent the streets. That's why it is the H of COMMONS. The streets are full of the common. It's time they were permitted to speak in government.
When Joseph Cowen entered parliament in 1874 he was mocked for his broad Tyneside accent. It's time we moved on.

Hey trisher, about time we agreed on something and on this, I’m with you.

Lemongrove, apologies for mistyping your name. I’m away with intermittent WiFi and should have spell checked. Yes, I was referring to your views on Harold Wilson, his background at the possible i,pact of Oxford in knocking the edges off his Yorkshire roughness

Back to AR’s recent comments on our government. I wouldn’t express myself like that in a formal setting but I absolutely agree with her views

Anniebach

What does youse mean ?

As I said earlier, you = singular, youse = plural. So if I was in a coffee bar with you I might say, "What would you like." If I was with a group of friends, "What would youse like."

If you think about it most things have a plural, if you are talking to more than one person you isn't actually appropriate is it. "What would you like." when talking to two or three people, which one are you asking?

I've read that in days gone by thou was the singular and you was the plural but no one would use that now would they, language changes and evolves. None of us talk like Chaucer.

Iam64 since I have already replied about Harold Wilson I won’t carry on with explanations.

There is a lot of twisting and turning about Rayner’s words on here, in an effort to defend her.
No matter what anyone on the forum would or wouldn’t say, either in public or in private, the fact of the matter is that she is an elected MP, who speaks in the HOC and at the Labour Conference ( and anywhere else presumably) as if she’s in the pub with her mates.

Thank you theworriedwell It would be known what you mean where you live, not where I live

She's following in a long Labour tradition of calling the Tories what they really are. Like Nye Bevan
That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin”

When I look at some of these politicians I think to myself whether I could see them running the country, in a position of power. Try as I might, I cannot see Angela Rayner running anything but into the ground. Nothing to do with her accent either. Both my parents were Labour and I was brought up in A working class household so no accusations of snobbery please. you can be an authentic Labour politician without resorting to her behaviour and language. In my view.

In many peoples view actually Forsythia ( in spite of the false accusations of snobbery.)

Anniebach

Thank you theworriedwell It would be known what you mean where you live, not where I live

I no longer live in NI, I used to live in a large English city, I live in a coastal town in Devon. In context I've never known anyone not understand what it means.

In fairness there is no comparison between Nye Bevan and Angela Rayner though trisher. He was from a working class background, but from an early age he was an orator, he had a fantastic way with words (and of course the Welsh accent did help because it’s for whatever reason not seen by the English as ‘common’, whatever that means). He didn’t use bad language or rudeness to get the result he wanted.
I didn’t have an issue with her performance in the House of Commons at PMQ, but I think she got carried away and strayed too far into insults yesterday, and that wasn’t professional behaviour from any politician in my view.

Keir should send her packing after refusing to apologise. She called someone a scumbag earlier in the year as well. So unprofessional!

She shouldn't apologise until Johnson apologises for what he said about Nazanin Zaghari Ratcliffe. Anyone who can do what he did and not apologise, on their knees wearing sackcloth and ashes, deserves to be called out on it.

Comparing that woman with Nye Bevan , pathetic ,

Casdon

In fairness there is no comparison between Nye Bevan and Angela Rayner though trisher. He was from a working class background, but from an early age he was an orator, he had a fantastic way with words (and of course the Welsh accent did help because it’s for whatever reason not seen by the English as ‘common’, whatever that means). He didn’t use bad language or rudeness to get the result he wanted.
I didn’t have an issue with her performance in the House of Commons at PMQ, but I think she got carried away and strayed too far into insults yesterday, and that wasn’t professional behaviour from any politician in my view.

I have never heard any English person call the Welsh language “common”. Personally love to hear it spoken.

Are you Welsh Lincslass ?

It was just a word comparison Bevan said "vermin" Rayner said "scum". Both accurate and appropriate.

She said more than just ‘scum’ though didn’t she, and not clothed in any pretence of politeness. I think we could do with Nye Bevan back.

Casdon

She said more than just ‘scum’ though didn’t she, and not clothed in any pretence of politeness. I think we could do with Nye Bevan back.

Oh I agree with that Casdon

trisher. You seemed bothered, comparing Rayner with Nye
Bevan and calling Gordon Brown a Tory.

Best you calm down ?

I find the sneering and jeering that routinely goes on in the House of Commons just as nasty and unprofessional as AR's performance. Much of the time, the insults are not expressed in words, but the sentiment behind them is clearly no different from that expressed by AR.

Why is one accepted and the other not?

Is it because one of these practices has been around so long in politics that it is accepted as 'normal' and 'acceptable' (after all, politics was traditionally the realm of our 'betters'!), while the other hasn't?
Ah, the good old British class system!

Quite honestly, I am not trying to defend AR here, but it seems to me that a lot of people are more bothered by actual words (and perhaps who says them?) than by equally nasty forms of insult.