Don’t underestimate this u-turn

MaizieD I would assume that this up market restaurant pays its staff above average wages. All the staff apart from two British females are either Turkish or Eastern European.

If you are a Romanian waitress, nurse, carer etc choosing to carry on working in the UK at least you are improving your language skills and maybe even furthering your prospects. There is no such pull for a Romanian HGV driver so it can only be the money that draws them. I'm guessing if they are paid enough they will return for a while at least.

GrannyGravy13

We were out to dinner last night in a local Turkish Restaurant, we were talking with the Romanian waitress who has been there for two years. She intends to stay for another three years by which time she will have saved enough to go back home and by herself a house outright

To say that all Eastern European workers left in droves on 31/12/20 is somewhat erroneous.

If an Eastern EU worker can earn enough waitressing in the UK to buy her home affer 5 years then it is likely the UK will attract drivers, even temporary. I still hope British industry makes a U-turn and starts investing in our young people again.

Rather hoping someone woukd tell me I have got it wrong - afterall didn't the government re-launch 'apprenticeships' a few years back?

All this government is now doing is crises management - it is no longer in control but chasing to try and avoid the next lot of chaos.

If an Eastern EU worker can earn enough waitressing in the UK to buy her home affer 5 years then it is likely the UK will attract drivers, even temporary.

If there wasn't actually a shortage of HGV in Europe I could see your reasoning. But there is a shortage and Freedom of Movement makes it much easier for drivers to find well paid work within the EU rather than go through the faff of getting a visa etc. to come to the UK. I think we may get a few, but not many.

Remind me who was it said “Fuck business”

Chickens and roost springs to mind. ?

EU drivers that come here to work now have to pass the UK HGV test because we don’t recognize their EU licence unless the are doing international work. So unless they are going to be allowed to use EU qualifications it does not help much.

The problem with the whole haulage industry is how much the customer will pay, on any day it’s the truck that will make the journey for the lowest cost, in that situation with so many self employed drivers improving wages long term is very difficult.

The imagery in your title to this thread was actually very clever Whitewavemark2 in relation to government and vehicles alike!

Maybe now is the time to stop putting all good into huge lorries which clog up our roads and put freight back on the railways and canals - and stop expecting everything to be delivered instantly (accepting that some things need to be).

It was Thatcher that was very much in league with the road transport lot I believe. She was no fan of the railways.

Well they will be over here in droves if the reports are true about the pay HGV drivers can demand now?

Septimia

Maybe now is the time to stop putting all good into huge lorries which clog up our roads and put freight back on the railways and canals - and stop expecting everything to be delivered instantly (accepting that some things need to be).

Now this is certainly something I would agree with, 100%.

But it takes planning, foresight, intelligence, and lots of time- which this Government is clearly not able to produce. And people who do not expect Amazon next day delivery either.

The problem is that so many small towns aren't served by railways or canals. Goods would still need to be transferred from trains to lorries for local deliveries. Many of the old railway lines have now been built on.

GrannyGravy13

We were out to dinner last night in a local Turkish Restaurant, we were talking with the Romanian waitress who has been there for two years. She intends to stay for another three years by which time she will have saved enough to go back home and by herself a house outright

To say that all Eastern European workers left in droves on 31/12/20 is somewhat erroneous.

No, but apparently an estimated 1.3 million have left.

Lucky the government have COVID to blame instead of bREXIT

MayBee70

It was Thatcher that was very much in league with the road transport lot I believe. She was no fan of the railways.

The same Margaret Thatcher who thought it a good idea to buy gas from Russia

lemongrove

Scones

"I'm just fed up with every hiccup being a stick to beat the government with"

Current 'hiccups' include:-

The army driving ambulances is Scotland.
Chemotherapy being rationed due to staff shortages.
Waste collections delayed/cancelled due to staff shortages.
Petrol not being delivered to points of sale.
18% of people reporting not being able to buy essential food in the last week.
1,500 in hospital in Scotland purely because no suitable social care is available.
136,000 Coronavirus related deaths.

Stick-worthy hiccups.

Not so.
Staff shortages for delivering chemotherapy and waste collections are due to Covid.
Petrol ( no shortage) just BP having problems
Army helping out by driving ambulances....all good! That’s the government stepping up to the plate ( and NS requested it.)
We have just been through a terrible pandemic and yet it appears some people are outraged at the consequences....the same government got us all early vaccinations, remember?
They are not miracle workers.

A quick and inaccurate stock put down does not sweep away these issues.

Staff shortages for delivering chemotherapy and waste collections are not due to Covid. Read the facts about recruitment problems in the NHS and refuse services. This is a recruitment not an attendance problem.

"Petrol ( no shortage) just BP having problems". I didn't say shortage. I said petrol not delivered to point of sale. Do please read comments before responding with a set piece.

Army helping out by driving ambulances....all good! Really?

Vaccination is not relevant to the matter in discussion.

Please note that outraged and justifiably pointing out failings are not the same thing.

My goodness you would defend these ne'er do wells to the grave wouldn't you.

NotSpaghetti

The Eastern European workers that I know well enough to have proper conversations with (all between 30 and roughly 55) say the British are lazy. One of them wished they could be lazy too as they felt guilty if they didn't give 100% and said that sometimes they feel really tired. One said "hard work is a badge of honour".

They all seem to be very diligent workers. These are the people who have been doing the jobs we don't want to.

I wonder if we were ever thought of as hard working? If so, what happened.

So the words of some Eastern European workers, suits your agenda to say all our countrymen are lazy. That is lazy assumptions on your part. Also quite inflammatory, like saying all Eastern European’s are drunken criminals. Much anti British narratives on here, still nothing unusual .

As I read it NotSpaghetti didn't present an assumption, she provided us with some evidence and posed a question.

The further anti-British narrative about drunken criminals was all your own imagining.

Just one question ' if you were an East European HGV driver, would YOU come back' after all that is happened, and with no longterm security at all?

Yes

or

No?

Mine is a NO

Lincslass have you actually ^read ^this thread?
Please go back and do so...
Then you will see that your statement (below) is absurd.

So the words of some Eastern European workers, suits your agenda to say all our countrymen are lazy. That is lazy assumptions on your part. Also quite inflammatory, like saying all Eastern European’s are drunken criminals. Much anti British narratives on here, still nothing unusual .

You are totally misreading.
... sorry to be so cross about it but I am not saying that at all.

Scones

As I read it NotSpaghetti didn't present an assumption, she provided us with some evidence and posed a question.

The further anti-British narrative about drunken criminals was all your own imagining.

Thank you Scones

This doesn't surprise me at all. This is the government of U turns. If I was a European lorry driver I'd tell them where to stick their temporary visa!

Are the IR35 rules going to be changed? Apparently, they are one of the main reasons (along with Brexit red tape) that foreign HGV drivers have given up on the UK.