Look at Me

How does saying that ‘men need to be responsible for their behaviour’ help in a practical way?
Women have to be proactive to help themselves where they can.It doesn’t mean that will confer any magical safety net to cover all eventualities but it will certainly cover some.

Frog lady, you’re right, we already know something of the red flags in this man’s history. This offence fits the category of a man with a history of misogyny, use of extreme pornography, using prostitutes etc. He’d clearly been planning this abduction, rape and murder for a significant time. It is unlikely to have been his first serious offence

Asking men to be responsible includes expecting men to stop supporting ‘jokes’ about rape. Couzens was in a WhatsApp group with other officers where they shared misogyny, homophobia, racism - all serving officers. That’s a culture - they won’t have confined their belief systems to a WhatsApp group. Other male officers should have been challenging inappropriate comments, attitudes.

It’s clear from comments from serving and retired women officers, that a culture of misogyny makes it difficult for them to report. All too often they’re seen as the problem. You know that thing where women are seen as responsible for improving everything, preventing men behaving badly

Jess Philips absolutely excellent in R4.

I paraphrase

“Once again we are asking women to modify their behaviour, by questioning the police officer, but none of it is working.”

When will this dawn on police, government etc.

Dick “not available for interview” disgraceful.

What you say Iam64 about not supporting jokes, I had already included in my former post.

I'd imagine being such a whatsapp group would be against their code of conduct? (how vile)

We have to remember some women cannot protect themselves too, you only have to look at the recent dramatisation on tiv.

Casual crass sexism still annoys me now as much as it did when I was around it day in day out in the office back in the '70s and '80s. For example we went to a birthday party a few years ago. Given for a friend. Those present were friends, family, including very young grandchildren. Wife of the man having the significant birthday, brings out cake with candles and makes a little speech, then some arse in his 70s no less, his wife by his side shouts out "where's the strippers?" Honestly! wanted to knock his teeth down his fat gob detestable oaf! If it had been my do, I'd have said something about the inappropriateness of that remark, but then I wouldn't have invited such a person in the first place.

Going back to Sarah, I still don't understand, given there wasn't a curfew, and Sarah was merely walking along the street, how this awful man could be allowed to make such an arrest. A salutary lesson to all women never to be duped into being forced into a car by a police officer under false pretences.

What you mean is someone else got raped lemongrove, do you think rapists just dont rape if there are no women in short skirts. If you look at the Sarah Everard case, say she had been wearing a short skirt (and thank God she wasnt because that would have been an added burden to her family to listen to comments on appropriate dress) becaise of what we know now we can say categorically that her clothes made no difference. What might have made a difference is if he had been locked up for his previous crime, if he had lost his job, perhaps even if someone somewhere looked at the impact of porn on men. And if someone is nicknamed a rapist maybe look at the culture of the bloody workplace. Changing her clothes would have made zero difference. We have tried your way for decades sexual assaults and rapes remain high, perhaps we could try something that helps women.

It isn't either/or. It is something to be wished for, but saying it doesn't make it happen ,that a woman should be able to safely walk alone down a dark street past even darker alleyways, wearing skimpy clothing and high heels she can't run in, after drinking enough to blunt her reactions, but saying i.......................................t doesn't keep her safe from someone who is relying on her doing just that so that he can get his kicks. The raw fact remains that dark deserted streets can be dangerous and a lone woman there can be vulnerable to a predator.

Likewise no boy should grow up having absorbed the attitude that women are fair game, or with such a desire for power that he will sacrifice someone else to satisfy it, but saying that doesn't make it happen. The other raw fact is that some young men have experienced failures in their upbringing or environment, and/or have become brutalised by extreme pornography. Some have progressed through harming animals to harming their partners (animal cruelty is often a step on the way to violence to humans), some have no partner to harm so they seek out vulnerable strangers.

Wrt the arrest, how many of us would have got in the car?I know would now, let alone when I was younger. Most people I know are rule following people and do as they are told by the police. It is really bloody heartbreaking

Women have to walk home from work when it is late and dark, I know I had to

I would have got in the car. Without a shadow of a doubt.

In the last post, I am not saying that ONLY women in miniskirts get raped or murdered, but that SOME incidents might not happen and until/if perfection is reached in male attitudes every little helps.

Nor that ALL men are warped by their past and their obsessions, but that improving parenting, social detestation of "laddish" sex jokes and a change in attitudes to "harmless" pornography would cut down the number of dissatisfied and violent men around.

Psychological evaluation of the guardians of the vulnerable could do with an overhaul too, but this murder can hardly be put down to a "total failure of the police force." There must be more factors involved than that.

Five of the top stories Guardian today, relate to violence against women

That story about the man burning the house down is beyond words.

Was it someone known to them? I must admit I have days/weeks where I feel i don't want to watch or read the news

Her partner.

A new partner I presume, not the children's Dad. How much devastation can one person cause

TerriBull

Casual crass sexism still annoys me now as much as it did when I was around it day in day out in the office back in the '70s and '80s. For example we went to a birthday party a few years ago. Given for a friend. Those present were friends, family, including very young grandchildren. Wife of the man having the significant birthday, brings out cake with candles and makes a little speech, then some arse in his 70s no less, his wife by his side shouts out "where's the strippers?" Honestly! wanted to knock his teeth down his fat gob detestable oaf! If it had been my do, I'd have said something about the inappropriateness of that remark, but then I wouldn't have invited such a person in the first place.

Going back to Sarah, I still don't understand, given there wasn't a curfew, and Sarah was merely walking along the street, how this awful man could be allowed to make such an arrest. A salutary lesson to all women never to be duped into being forced into a car by a police officer under false pretences.

Do you know I would have reacted the same at a hen party, where women were actually shouting for male strippers to get them off. thank goodness it’s never happened.

No not the dad. There was a child on a sleepover there. Just heartbreaking.

The most tragic aspect of Sarah Everard's murder is that at that time very strong advice given was to stay indoors, because of covid restrictions. Therefore the streets were largely deserted and any lone woman was doubly vulnerable.

Couzens premeditated an abduction and rape meticulously and with malice aforethought; someone was going to be raped and possibly murdered that night, and Sarah Everard, through no fault of her own, became the victim.

In my seventies I have experienced a few unpleasant relationships with men, personal and in work, but I survived them and have not lived my life in fear. None of these men were rapists; they had no need to be because they all possessed considerable charm. They were also liars, cheats and philanderers despite presenting as good family men.

What they had in common was a resentment of any authority other than their own, which ultimately damaged their careers and relationships, and an underlying contempt for and possibly fear of, women.

We know little of Couzen's background although now the trial is over I expect psychological profiles will emerge to attempt to explain his motivation. I honestly do not believe, through personal experience, that most men are like this, although the number of murders through domestic violence is horrifying as are the murderous attacks on mainly young men in the streets.

Perhaps this horrifying case will prompt immediate action.

Guessing depends where you live personally around us is still safe???

We must educate our children to respect each other and put an end to violent pornography.

Growing up in the 60s I would say nothing much has changed . Both genders are vulnerable to attacks . Yes women should be safe to walk the streets at night alone as should men but its not going to happen . We need to exercise caution , don't travel alone , walk in unlit places or parks alone or take lifts from strangers etc . This is the way it's always been . Advice I would give to a son and a daughter.

My mother would kiss me goodbye at the door and tell me not to take lifts or sweets from anyone or talk to strangers or to get into an empty train carriage, and if I ever needed help to go straight to a police station .

Poor Sarah was duped by a policeman that dreadful night but he doesn't represent all police and we must be careful not to lose our trust in them .

Monsters walk among us in all professions as we know , priests , Drs , Nurses , teachers etc etc .

This was the actions of one monster , he isn't all men and he isn't all police .
RIP Sarah.

This