Police that can’t be trusted

Just read that a serving Met officer has been charged with rape.
Is this the tip of a very nasty iceberg?

I haven’t read that yet Maw, but I’m sure there will be many women coming forward who were previously afraid of not being believed.
A big overhaul is long overdue so that the vast majority of good and decent police officers can go about their duty.

Some details (it was breaking news on th Guardian website)
A serving Metropolitan police officer has been charged with rape, the Crown Prosecution Service has said

PC David Carrick, 46, of Stevenage, Hertfordshire, will appear via video link at Hatfield magistrates court on Monday. Scotland Yard said Carrick, who is based within the Met’s parliamentary and diplomatic protection command, was charged with rape by Hertfordshire constabulary on Sunday

The officer was off duty in Hertfordshire at the time, the force said

Carrick was arrested on 2 October by Hertfordshire constabulary and suspended the same day by the Metropolitan police. The force said it was awaiting the outcome of criminal proceedings, adding that a referral had been made to the Independent Office for Police Conduct

Metropolitan police commissioner Dame Cressida Dick said: “I am deeply concerned to hear the news today that an officer from the Met’s parliamentary and diplomatic protection command has been arrested and now charged with this serious offence

Harriet Hartman says Met comishoner Cresida Dick should go
Establishment Starmer said she should stay.

Short clip from Novara Media discussing this.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=NeKzcPoCxm4

I agree that it’s time for Cressida Dick to go but who will be willing to pick up the poison chalice.

The officer who was charged today was in the same unit as Couzens. The whole unit need to be checked thoroughly now.
The Met has always had problems with corruption, but has been better in the last few years, but this is even worse.
This doesn’t mean that other forces around the country have the same problems or that all police should be distrusted, as one or two posters seem to imply.

Thanks Laura the Australian police have their own bad apples to equal the Met it seems.

Lemongrove
Totally agree. The Met has always been different always will be. They think they are the elite as they police the capital.

But we can’t pretend these are problems endemic only to the Met. It’s a problem with policing overall, which is why a top to bottom review and overhaul needs to take place, even if it won’t be abolition which I’d prefer.

Abolition? Are you serious?!
What do you plan to replace it with.... ex teachers, students,
Night club bouncers, ex Debenhams staff?

Hardly - luckily there’s a lot of smart people actually doing the work on it:

www.vice.com/en/article/qj4k4x/what-would-happen-if-we-defunded-police-in-the-uk

I don’t see the absolute defunding and abolition working tbh, but I can see that some of the ideas make sense. There will still, however be crimes such as burglary, fraud, murder etc for which some kind of police force is necessary. Maybe it is laws that needs to be changed. Whilst there are laws the police are supposed to enforce them, that is the reason for their existence.

AuntieEleanorsCat

Time was, the head of the Met would be sacked for this kind of mess. Under Johnson, no one is accountable.

I cannot stop thinking of that poor young woman and what she went through. Couzens ought to have been suspended and investigated at the VERY LEAST. This was “allowed” to happen.

You are quite right. The 2 police officers with Couzens when he exposed himself to female staff at McDonald's ought to have been reported him to their superiors and Couzens immediately stripped of his warrant card, handcuffs etc and suspended pending an inquiry. Instead those 2 officers, seemingly treated it as a bit of a laugh. 'There goes Wayne again, he's such a lad'. Nothing done followed by the most awful tragedy. There are 16 officers under investigation at the moment over incidents relating to Couzens. I was horrified to read that at least 2 of them are still at work!!!

25Avalon

I don’t see the absolute defunding and abolition working tbh, but I can see that some of the ideas make sense. There will still, however be crimes such as burglary, fraud, murder etc for which some kind of police force is necessary. Maybe it is laws that needs to be changed. Whilst there are laws the police are supposed to enforce them, that is the reason for their existence.

I actually agree with you, Avalon

We probably won’t get 100% abolition, but a massive refocus - including funding - on tackling the issues around it would make a huge difference.

AmberSpyglass

We probably won’t get 100% abolition, but a massive refocus - including funding - on tackling the issues around it would make a huge difference.

I don't think it should be called 'defunding', though. I very much agree that there should be a reallocation (or even just extra funding) of funding to areas which would make a difference. I think the police (and teachers) are expected to deal with many problems for which they have no training, and, from talking to them, they are hugely frustrated by the fact that there are not enough effective services to which they can refer people.

But it is such a political decision, isn't it? Would, for example, decriminalising drugs be a politically popular move?

Anyway, nothing will happen under our current Home Secretary. Punishment is her forte...

I’m in no way a supporter of defunding the police. The USA is totally different in that a large part of police funding goes on supplying military style arms.
We need to re-fund the police, drug/alcohol/children’s services especially family centres, the criminal justice system including probation, that’s a minimum start.
The government is refusing a McPhearson type public enquiry. I’d like to see immediate public, judge led investigation into the issues Couzens raises, Ie vetting, supervision, culture. I’ve jus read on this thread that other officers were with him on one of the McDonald’s exposure incident. Why aren’t they suspended and dismissed?

Iam64

I’m in no way a supporter of defunding the police. The USA is totally different in that a large part of police funding goes on supplying military style arms.
We need to re-fund the police, drug/alcohol/children’s services especially family centres, the criminal justice system including probation, that’s a minimum start.
The government is refusing a McPhearson type public enquiry. I’d like to see immediate public, judge led investigation into the issues Couzens raises, Ie vetting, supervision, culture. I’ve jus read on this thread that other officers were with him on one of the McDonald’s exposure incident. Why aren’t they suspended and dismissed?

Agree with everything you said.

But the police force as an institution is broken. Fundamentally. A few good apples doesn’t mean the whole barrel isn’t rotting from the top down.

Iam64

I’m in no way a supporter of defunding the police. The USA is totally different in that a large part of police funding goes on supplying military style arms.
We need to re-fund the police, drug/alcohol/children’s services especially family centres, the criminal justice system including probation, that’s a minimum start.
The government is refusing a McPhearson type public enquiry. I’d like to see immediate public, judge led investigation into the issues Couzens raises, Ie vetting, supervision, culture. I’ve jus read on this thread that other officers were with him on one of the McDonald’s exposure incident. Why aren’t they suspended and dismissed?

Did you read the article that AmberSpyglass linked to? It wasn't really, IMO, about completely defunding..

Yes I read it MaizieD but it didn’t change my view. Our police form states it’s aim to police by consent - thst goes deeply into the psyche of the officers I worked with

AmberSpyglass

But the police force as an institution is broken. Fundamentally. A few good apples doesn’t mean the whole barrel isn’t rotting from the top down.

A few bad apples doesn’t mean the whole force is rotting from the top down either.

Cressida Dick has announced an independent review of the behaviour, leadership, training and culture of the MET. fwiw I think that is the way forward. When I read comments on here suggesting defunding etc I feel some despair. I think policing has changed for the better since the 80's, it can, of course, continue to improve, but why would intelligent committed ambitious young people aspire to be in the police with all this negativity. As I type this I hear a nurse has been charged with murdering 18 babies. there's been several cases of nurses and doctors murdering their patients but I don't hear the same reaction. Can someone explain why?

Good post foxie48. I’ve felt slightly conflicted about Cressida Dick because it’s generally accepted figure heads fall on their sword when things go so badly wrong. The irony that the first female met cc should be sacrificed because of the actions of men hasn’t escaped me.
Anti police feelings aren’t new. I can only repeat in 40 years of working alongside, training officers etc, I’ve met so many excellent officers.

A few bad apples doesn’t mean the whole force is rotting from the top down either.

But if the bad apples aren’t removed very quickly, the entire barrel will be tainted.

I can only say - I'm so glad oldest son didn't join the police force as he was encouraged to do in the 80s.
Their responsibilities and public expectations of their behaviour have become unrealistic.
imo they are our physical guardians - not our moral guardians