BBC quits Stonewall Diversity Scheme

Emma Barnett skewered the BBC spokesman (I didn’t catch his name) about Stonewall and the BBC. Wait for the ‘pregnant’ pause.

It’s the first item. www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0011c4v

Indeed that almost 4 second pregnant pause is very telling! I especially notice when asked if she should correct the 'pregnant people' phrase he won't advise, can't be asked to make editorial decision instantly on a live broadcast, it's up to her. The fact she's live broadcasting at that point seems not to occur to him. It was a very thorough questioning. Thanks for the link SueDonim.

Thanks from me too, SueDonim. That was an excellent interview, and Emma Barnett's frustration shone through. I'm sure that many people who may not have thought through the implications of all of this will have seen from that just how difficult it must have been to maintain journalistic impartiality under the cosh of Stomewall's No Debate rules.

I can't help but notice that the posters who are usually all over these threads are silent on this one, incidentally, and I'm sure I'm not alone in having noticed it. It's a shame, as they have accused posters on threads on trans issues of making them into 'echo chambers', yet this is inevitable if there are no alternative voices being heard, and it would be interesting to hear what people like trisher, VS and GagaJo have to say about this development.

Excellent news. The silence is indeed deafening from some posters doodledog

This is good news, at last some common sense. Stonewall is not the first organisation that may have been well founded and needed but then gone too far in trying to force issues and allowing the fanatics to take over.

Yes it’s very quiet Doodledog perhaps they’ve not spotted the thread yet?

Silence-are some people busy googling, sorry, researching evidence that this is wrong?

Thanks for that link SueDonim I'd have missed that if you hadn't posted it. I particularly enjoyed the "stumped for a rational response" pause too! Mumsnet has a good discussion going on about this too. They're so proactive and clued up about this; their strong opinions and actions about Stonewall, and how feminism is being eroded by them, it gives me hope for the future.

A friend of mine who works on broadcasts for the BBC says that that pause was so long it was the equivalent of a nuclear bomb going off in BBC HQ!

I hope this pack of cards is now collapsing, I really do.

Thanks for the link SueDonim, grannie duty meant I missed women’s hour. I’ve just listened and enjoyed Emma Barnett’s investigative interview style. She can be a combative interviewer, which was certainly needed during this interview.

I’m increasingly concerned that the approach to children and adolescents presenting with gender dysphoria seems to take it as read that they are trans. The attachment. Psychological, social and emotional factors (to name only a few) factors influencing the confusion and feelings seem to be given much less attention than is needed. Adolescence is such a difficult transition for everyone, much more so if trauma, emotional neglect/any kind of abuse was part of childhood development. There is evidence that a number of females are backing out, or regretting decisions about mastectomy or hysterectomy. The number of females seeking gender support has increased hugely. As well as individual backgrounds, research into societal treatment of females that may be influencing girls is needed

Thank the Lord, common sense seems to be taking over in the madhouse. Long may it continue.

I wanted to be a boy throughout my childhood. I had very little empathy with other girls. I wanted to be out playing boys games with boys. I am truly, truly grateful that the possiblity of making trans decisions and taking puberty blockers did not exist in my childhood.

Come puberty and it was quite clear that, biologically, I was a straight heterosexual woman and being at one with my biology and hormones, was my predominant driver.

When I hear of young pre-pubescent children making decisions, I almost weep. I would have been quite capable of understanding the problems and effects these drugs would have on me and thinking about it and discussing it intelligently with psychologists, but I would only be a prepubescent child I would have absolutely no knowledge or understanding of how adult sexuality works, how it drives character, desires and personality. There is no way a prepubescent child, however intelligent,, however thoughtful can fully understand the ramifications of adult sexuality.

MOnica I too am/was spartacus

Did anyone hear Emma Barnett's interview with Prof Kathleen Stock this week? She resigned from her post at a university where she had been a senior lecturer for eighteen years, because she declared her belief that sex and gender were separate things, as a result of which she received considerable abuse.

Quite disgraceful.

Yes I heard the interview.
Emma Barnett is doing some excellent work on women’s hour

There is a huge difference between a tomboy and a child designated female who knows without doubt that she is a boy.

Knows that he (not she) is a boy

This thread has filtered out certain posters.
Now we know.

Varian, I’m not disputing that and I suspect MOnica isn’t either. My point is the risks around accepting that every child presenting as trans isn’t given the extensive assessment and support needed. Too narrow focus is risky

varian

There is a huge difference between a tomboy and a child designated female who knows without doubt that she is a boy.

Missing the point completely. ‘Tomboy’ or not, the point is that it seems to be acceptable to encourage/facilitate young people - children actually - to consider themselves as transgender before they even have a chance to get to grips with the gender they were born into.

Well put Pammie1

I think the difference is wafer thin. I am not sure in a previous age (I was born in the early 1940s) that a child would think in terms of 'being a boy'. Nor would anything they said about preferring to be with boys or doing male activities, be picked up on, nor would supportive remarks be made to them to encourage them to explore these options.

With the best will in the world, and for the best intentions a child can be encouraged to identify as male or female, simply by adults trying to be open in their response to the idea.

Remember George from the Famous Five who wanted to be a boy? That is the sort of stage that a lot of girls go through, and what used to be called 'tomboy'.

It was very common, and IMO happened when girls started to realise that boys got listened to more, and didn't have to do as many chores as girls, or got to do woodwork instead of cookery - that sort of thing. When people talk about tomboys they always mention climbing trees for some reason, as though that is a naturally 'male' thing to do.

It was seen as a phase, and in most cases it was just that. Girls aren't called 'tomboys' now, as it is recognised that climbing trees is not a gender-specific activity, and that neither are 'nurturing' role plays, such as playing with dolls. Maybe girls don't now see as much overt sexism as older generations did; but they may see women derided for being fat, for not looking 'perfect' or whatever (and goodness knows what impact porn has on them?), so decide to 'be' boys for those reasons - not quite the same as the George-type 'tomboys', but not wildly different, really.

Rather than say that yes, they are in the wrong body, I agree with Iam that it would be better to look at the reasons behind their feeling this way.

Ah yes Doodledog, George and her dog Timmy! Always fiercely independent and wanting to be seen as good as Dick and Julian, whilst poor old Ann was left to "make house" in their various caves. George would now have to be whisked off to Lush to have her budding breasts tied down,
attend the Tavistock for gender reassignment surgery, be "supported" by Mermaids to get over her trauma and given a badge so that she could have her pronoun on it. She'd be better off staying put on Kirrin Island and enjoy her childhood.

That's the one?