Stand off drowning migrants and report – or face prosecution, sailors warned

It seems to be that people think the world operates on a very simple model.

The French aren't pulling their weight.

The French aren't stopping the crossings.

If we get rid of the people traffickers the migrants will miraculously stop wanting to come here.

They only want to come here for the hotel accommodation and free money.

Unfortunately, our government seem to think the same way because they have all the political sophistication of a 3 year old.

Who bloody cares what other countries are doing.

I care about MY country and the way we are behaving.

Whitewavemark2

Who bloody cares what other countries are doing.

I care about MY country and the way we are behaving.

Serious question, other than taking care of these desperate folks once they arrive in the U.K.(which happens) what can any of us do whilst they are still in another Country?

Our government could act like adults and lead the way. But they won’t because they aren’t.

I think it’s closer to 200 km of coast which makes it impossible to police.
The £54 million has not been
Paid, Just promised, pretty much like the 40 new hospitals and tens of thousands of doctors and nurses which also havnt materialised,
The particular reasons why some want to come here have already been explained, As for numbers, these are far fewer than other European countries are taking in, We are led to believe we have more than anywhere, but in actuality we have the fewest,
Can’t those who are being so hard see these as people! They are someone’s sons daughters sisters brothers?
A close relative is involved with helping refugees in Europe and we have met many , all of whom just want peace and safety for themselves and their families. Just as we who are lucky enough to have security enjoy, Were we in their situation those with drive and courage would probably be doing the exact same thing.

Lucca

lemongrove

Allowing the camps to build up is a big part of the problem,
If there were no camps then people smugglers couldn’t trawl them for clients for a start.
We already are co-operating with French authorities on this matter and have been for years, but we cannot stop people getting into boats over there.

So what should happen to the migrants who turn up there ?

The same as happens here! They are taken to centres, fed, given clothing and somewhere to stay whilst their asylum claims are processed.If they have family (or any links) in the UK that they can prove, perhaps we could consider their cases as a priority.Others would have to apply for asylum in France.
Not allowed to wild camp anywhere at the coast.Yes, it’s a thorny problem for all countries.

Robin38

Kali2

Johnson and all keep talking about how they should work with their partners in the EU, and particularly France. They were your partners, but you have alienated them to such an extent, and you have chosen for them not to be 'partners' anymore.

Oh for heavens sake. Stop banging the Brexit drum. It’s over we have left. Get over it.

Part of this is a direct result of Brexit- whether you like it or not. And many warnings were given at the time, including some of us on here. Yes, we have left- and we have lost the goodwill of those who were our partners.

Whitewavemark2

Our government could act like adults and lead the way. But they won’t because they aren’t.

What is your solution?
Could Macron ‘lead the way’ also, since the migrants are leaving on this perilous journey from his country.

It was the whole point of the EU, work, cooperate, with our partners, be stronger, be more efficient, and so much more.

It has happened- but you have to come to accept the consequences of losing the cooperation of our ex-partners in 100s of ways- including this one.

GrannyGravy13

lemongrove

You are not the only one WW so why would you think that?!
It doesn’t help though to say or imply that others on GN do not care about the loss of life.
It also doesn’t help to say ‘don’t blame the French’ ....the migrants are in France so should take the blame.They allow camps to build up which is the main problem.

There have been some reports from observers that the temporary camps (I do not think camp is an accurate description of a hotchpotch of tarpaulins/plastic bags etc being used for cover) are being systematically destroyed by French Police in order to discourage the migrants.

If this is correct, they are indirectly contributing to the dangerous channel crossings these desperate folks are attempting.

If this is correct, they are indirectly contributing to the dangerous channel crossings these desperate folks are attempting.

... so the French will be blamed on the one hand for not destroying the camps - and also blamed on the other, because they have.

When they do destroy the camps - they bus back those migrants that are still around back to the asylum centre. Of course, some will run away and then return to re-build their 'camps'.

It's really not that easy to please those on this side of the channel is it?

Whitewavemark2

Who bloody cares what other countries are doing.

I care about MY country and the way we are behaving.

We are rescuing and looking after the migrants who arrive here.....so how are we behaving?
The trouble is, various posters are political point scoring over this matter.

They are taken to centres, fed, given clothing and somewhere to stay whilst their asylum claims are processed.

They are not seeking asylum in France. There are many reasons why people are entitled to claim asylum in the UK, not just family ties. But you have to be in the UK.

God, I'm weary of this.

Kali2

It was the whole point of the EU, work, cooperate, with our partners, be stronger, be more efficient, and so much more.

It has happened- but you have to come to accept the consequences of losing the cooperation of our ex-partners in 100s of ways- including this one.

There is not much co-operation within the EU regarding Polands border with Belarus?

Have you seen the poor souls, many families with young children stuck in no man’s land between the barbed wire fences. The snow will be arriving there anyway now, how many of those will perish?

How would you like Macron 'to lead the way' - Police and CRS (the very 'heavy', extra armed, French police- posted in large groups from all over France, in the Calais region) - have been smashing up and burning camps, beating up refugees - would you like them to do more? And if so ... what?

Shoot on sight? Are you prepared to accept this?

GrannyGravy13

Kali2

It was the whole point of the EU, work, cooperate, with our partners, be stronger, be more efficient, and so much more.

It has happened- but you have to come to accept the consequences of losing the cooperation of our ex-partners in 100s of ways- including this one.

There is not much co-operation within the EU regarding Polands border with Belarus?

Have you seen the poor souls, many families with young children stuck in no man’s land between the barbed wire fences. The snow will be arriving there anyway now, how many of those will perish?

So what are we saying now?

The Poles are really bad and not playing by the rules so we're not that bad really?

Yes, and 'those poor people' we feel so sorry for are a long way away - so we can feel sorry for them, from a distance ... but those near us, not so much !!!

Here is what a young friend of mine wrote today:

''There are 84 million displaced people in the world, due to climate change, war, famine and persecution. 35 million are children. (UNHCR)
25 thousand people is roughly two average size housing estates, across a country of 67 million people, (the U.K.), of which only 5% is built on.
The U.K. lost 144 thousand people to Covid this year and last, and is continuing to lose them at the rate of about 1,000 per week.
A million or more EU citizens have left the U.K. since 2019, and we continue to haemorrhage both EU and U.K. citizens due to Brexit.
The U.K. is not ‘full up’.
Most refugees statistically want to find work as soon as the host country allows and many have skills useful to the host country. The U.K. has public services and businesses crying out for workers right now. (Assuming people are not worth saving without economic value, as that seems to be the attitude we have now).
The U.K. is currently the 6th richest country in the world. It is not help ‘them’ or help ‘our own’. It is ‘help both’ vs stuff rich people’s pockets with more money than they can ever spend while we help neither.
There are 13 countries in Europe who give refuge to more people than the U.K. - often many more. The U.K. is nowhere near the top - or even the middle - worldwide. The top ten countries taking in millions of refugees are all economically poor. We are not doing anything like our ‘fair share’.
This U.K. government removed/cut aid to many countries affected by war and climate change, sells arms which cause others to be bombed or forced to flee, pulled out of Afghanistan leaving people at the mercy of the Taliban (edited highlights, much more too).
People may claim asylum in any country. This has been an internationally recognised right since the 1951 refugee convention which the U.K. signed. Being an asylum seeker or a refugee is not an illegal act.
The Dublin agreement exists within EU countries for asylum claims to be processed in the first EU county someone came to. The U.K. chose to leave that arrangement.
France cannot legally prevent anyone leaving France - leaving France isn’t a criminal act (pretty obvious that one when you have a think about it).
The U.K. government closed off all safe routes for asylum applications.
This U.K. government made it potentially illegal to save people from drowning.
Please read the last one again. These are people. They could be you, they could be me. All it takes is living in the wrong place at the wrong time. Imagine being desperate for help and reaching out to other human beings, and no one will help you.''

I am so proud of this ex student of mine, and support the above 100%.

mokryna said earlier on this thread that refugees are offered asylum in France but refuse because they want to come to the UK. Do all those refusing what is offered in France (or any other EU country) have family who are legally settled in the UK? Are they all English speakers? Given the huge numbers involved I very much doubt it. Do we have a more favourable benefits system than other EU countries in which they could have sought asylum? My priority is the countless people born here who subsist on or below the breadline, who have to decide between heating and eating, who live in appalling conditions and even on the streets, who cannot get the medical treatment they desperately need because the NHS is on its knees. And no, I didn’t vote for Brexit before anyone lobs that at me.

kali you are getting Brexit into almost all your comments.
It has nothing to do with the migrant crisis.... Channel crossings.
The camps around Calais ( for instance) were allowed to build up to huge sizes ( much more than now) years and years ago, well before we left the EU.
If posters could, for a moment, leave aside their dislike of Brexit or the current government, or of fellow GNers comments ( no personal slurs )and just focus on the actual subject, that would be a good start.

It's easy to say, that because geographically refugees arrive on the other side of Europe, be it in Sicily, or Poland... that they should never be able to get to the far away, across the water UK - 'not our problem'.

We have looked in detail many times why they want to come to the UK and not always remain in other parts of EU.

Brexiter wasn't the adjective I was thinking of using GSM.

Germanshepherdsmum

mokryna said earlier on this thread that refugees are offered asylum in France but refuse because they want to come to the UK. Do all those refusing what is offered in France (or any other EU country) have family who are legally settled in the UK? Are they all English speakers? Given the huge numbers involved I very much doubt it. Do we have a more favourable benefits system than other EU countries in which they could have sought asylum? My priority is the countless people born here who subsist on or below the breadline, who have to decide between heating and eating, who live in appalling conditions and even on the streets, who cannot get the medical treatment they desperately need because the NHS is on its knees. And no, I didn’t vote for Brexit before anyone lobs that at me.

Good sensible comments????

Alegrias1

GrannyGravy13

Kali2

It was the whole point of the EU, work, cooperate, with our partners, be stronger, be more efficient, and so much more.

It has happened- but you have to come to accept the consequences of losing the cooperation of our ex-partners in 100s of ways- including this one.

There is not much co-operation within the EU regarding Polands border with Belarus?

Have you seen the poor souls, many families with young children stuck in no man’s land between the barbed wire fences. The snow will be arriving there anyway now, how many of those will perish?

So what are we saying now?

The Poles are really bad and not playing by the rules so we're not that bad really?

Jeez Alegrias1 you are so very good at putting words into other posters posts

Kali2 posted that the migrant troubles were due to us no longer being a member of the EU, I just pointed out that a member state i.e. Poland was also having migrant problems.

This is nothing to do with being a member of the EU, it is purely desperate folks, seeking safety in a Country of their choosing.

(We have a close friend that has housed many young migrant men, and their harrowing tales would break even the most hardened heart)

lemongrove

Whitewavemark2

Our government could act like adults and lead the way. But they won’t because they aren’t.

What is your solution?
Could Macron ‘lead the way’ also, since the migrants are leaving on this perilous journey from his country.

My solution?

Well it would be a start by recognising and accepting that there will be huge amounts displaced people seeking refuge for years to come as a result of our foreign policies, climate change etc.

This problem is not going away and very likely to get worse. One if those who drowned was an interpreter for the British who fled Afghanistan because we failed to rescue him and his family.

One example accepting that this will be an ongoing problem, then the world must be divided into chunks e.g. Europe. Europe should than set up a ministry that deals with the European wide problem, in a fair and equitable way. It has to be done we can’t continue with this carnage.

lemongrove

kali you are getting Brexit into almost all your comments.
It has nothing to do with the migrant crisis.... Channel crossings.
The camps around Calais ( for instance) were allowed to build up to huge sizes ( much more than now) years and years ago, well before we left the EU.
If posters could, for a moment, leave aside their dislike of Brexit or the current government, or of fellow GNers comments ( no personal slurs )and just focus on the actual subject, that would be a good start.

Because it is very relevant- and because many of us and experts, warned that Brexit, and the loss of cooperation with our ex partners, would make this much worse. I can't be bothered to go back and fish out comments to this effect- but I can assure you warnings were clear. And I also remember that many of you called it just another Project Fear and scare mongering.

Kali, are you proud that amongst all the reasons your young friend cites for the UK being able to take in vast numbers of migrants, one of them is the number of our people who have died, and continue to die, from Covid?