What will the judiciary do?

It's all a bit subjective in my opinion. "They" have a democratic right to protest, "I" have a democratic right to go about my lawful business in a peaceful and uninterrupted manor. Who's rights take priority? I have no problem with people marching with banners showing their opinion, but when they become obstructive and aggressive, then I believe they have crossed a line and need to be reigned in. This is not an erosion of civil liberties, but an assurance that everyone's civil liberties are upheld.

Well yes of course Scotland is important but it does not happen to be the subject of this thread.

Maybe an analogy here with those who think insulation such an important topic that it can bulldoze everything else out of the way? ?

To return to the proposed bill and its sanctions against severe offences, among which I include road-blocking and preventing railways from running, prison is an absurd idea as others have said.
Community service involving sacrifice of free time would be preferable but it seems to be difficult to devise or operate good schemes. I don't know the answer but I do think sanctions should be tied to specific offences and not involve the principle of the right to protest.

Chocolatelovinggran

Exactly, theworriedwell. I am shocked to see the potential erosion of civil liberties that we as a nation, have always held dear - noisy or quiet, they are a way of giving a clear message.
I protested ( noisily) against the Vietnam war. My late father protested ( quietly) as Blackshirts marched through London. The crowd watched in silence, then turned their backs as the march passed.
Both methods legal, and effective, at making our feelings known. Long may these rights continue.

I sometimes think we have gone back 100 years and all the mistakes and disasters are happening again. I fear for my children and GC.

Reading your middle paragraph there Chocolatelovinggran put a shiver down my spine.

???

Exactly, theworriedwell. I am shocked to see the potential erosion of civil liberties that we as a nation, have always held dear - noisy or quiet, they are a way of giving a clear message.
I protested ( noisily) against the Vietnam war. My late father protested ( quietly) as Blackshirts marched through London. The crowd watched in silence, then turned their backs as the march passed.
Both methods legal, and effective, at making our feelings known. Long may these rights continue.

MaizieD

theworriedwell

Dickens

I think it's a slippery slope. A minefield in fact.

Protests are by nature 'loud', and the mere presence of a group whose ideology you oppose, is 'annoying'.

It's so ambiguous. I see trouble ahead.

Yes, people seem blind to the dangers. The start of a very slippery slope.

They think it's never going to apply to them.

Yes I think that is true. Reminds of this

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

theworriedwell

Dickens

I think it's a slippery slope. A minefield in fact.

Protests are by nature 'loud', and the mere presence of a group whose ideology you oppose, is 'annoying'.

It's so ambiguous. I see trouble ahead.

Yes, people seem blind to the dangers. The start of a very slippery slope.

They think it's never going to apply to them.

Dickens

I think it's a slippery slope. A minefield in fact.

Protests are by nature 'loud', and the mere presence of a group whose ideology you oppose, is 'annoying'.

It's so ambiguous. I see trouble ahead.

Yes, people seem blind to the dangers. The start of a very slippery slope.

4allweknow

When protests cause a worker to have to drive 3 miles on a circuitous route to get to work as the protesters have blocked the road that us a nuisance. When those idiots superglued themselves to the road surface having emergency workers get them unstuck that is a nuisance. Who are those people who seem to have all the time in the world to cause a nuisance to the public. Noticed at COP26 demos many of the protesters were waving their plastic banners. So much for saving the environment.

Is there anyone that the English do like?

Hate asylum seekers, hate protestors... not keen on 'woke',

When protests cause a worker to have to drive 3 miles on a circuitous route to get to work as the protesters have blocked the road that us a nuisance. When those idiots superglued themselves to the road surface having emergency workers get them unstuck that is a nuisance. Who are those people who seem to have all the time in the world to cause a nuisance to the public. Noticed at COP26 demos many of the protesters were waving their plastic banners. So much for saving the environment.

I wish those who want to talk about Scotland would start another thread. This is an important subject.

It's the second time it's been tried in the last few days, winterwhite and the subject of loss of age old freedoms hasn't exactly attracted much interest, has it?

So it's not surprising it's wandered...

I don't think that the target of this bill is exclusively the Scots protesters. I think the current government sees how popular it would be with some members of the electorate to look as though they are being tough on disruptive protesters. Then even if the Bill gets defeated, they can say how they tried to bring in tougher measures but the snowflakes/enemies of the people/traitors wouldn't let them.

I wish those who want to talk about Scotland would start another thread. This is an important subject.

So's Scotland

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Sorry winterwhite. Threads do meander though.
Easily done.

I think we may be the intended target of Bojo.He hates the Scots

What tosh.
But it suits your narrative I suppose paddyanne.
?

I wish those who want to talk about Scotland would start another thread. This is an important subject.

Dickens puts it very well IMO.

It would surely have been better if new legislation had been drafted against actions e.g in the disruption of public services rather than mere words of shouty protest which is what makes it all open to interpretation.

I also think that there are growing numbers who enjoy protesting for its own sake and get satisfaction out of making an anti-authority fuss about anything. I find that as worrying as anything.

Katie59

Currently interest rates are very low so interest has a small effect and in the UK debt does not get repaid, as one loan is paid back, another is taken out. Debt is very high at present due to the cost of Covid, prior to that it was around 80% of GDP which is comparable to many other states.

The larger part of the 'debt' (the money created by QE) is nominal, as I have pointed out before. The Bank of England will not take actual interest payments from the government nor will it expect repayment. I don't understand where this unnecessary worry about it comes from.

Currently interest rates are very low so interest has a small effect and in the UK debt does not get repaid, as one loan is paid back, another is taken out. Debt is very high at present due to the cost of Covid, prior to that it was around 80% of GDP which is comparable to many other states.

trisher

MaizieD I've long been of the opinion that we should shift the Scottish border back to Hadrian's wall, but I wouldn't mind if it went further south and encompassed Durham. Should we start a movement? We could organise demonstrations (but we'd have to be quick or they'll lock us up)

Come on up ladies, we'll put the kettle on.

Maybe you could choose to make them Scottish or English PB's Calistemon. How many do you think would stick with the English?

When Scotland becomes independent will the Scots all be demanding their loans back from the RUK Government?

eg cashing in their Premium Bonds?

MaizieD I've long been of the opinion that we should shift the Scottish border back to Hadrian's wall, but I wouldn't mind if it went further south and encompassed Durham. Should we start a movement? We could organise demonstrations (but we'd have to be quick or they'll lock us up)

But when you start considering that the 'debt' contributes to the deficit by way of interest payments it all starts to get a bit muddied.

I hope paddy will read your very clear explanation Maizie.

Debt is the money 'lent' to the government by purchase of / investment in (depending on how you want to look at it) Treasury bonds, Premium bonds, National Savings and any other government issued investment vehicle.

The deficit is the difference between government revenue (income) and government spending if the first is less than the second.

That's the simple version...