The foolishness of anti-vaxxers

I very much believe in the right of everyone to make their own decision about whether to get a vaccine or not, but I’m getting increasingly impatient with the intolerance shown by the pro-vaxxers. So much anger!

Form your own views; do others the courtesy of allowing them to do the same.

nightowl

I very much believe in the right of everyone to make their own decision about whether to get a vaccine or not, but I’m getting increasingly impatient with the intolerance shown by the pro-vaxxers. So much anger!

Form your own views; do others the courtesy of allowing them to do the same.

Never heard of pro vaxxers standing outside of schools, threatening children and staff. That is what makes me angry. If the antis want to risk hospital admission, ventilation and having all those chemicals pumped into them, or even dying, that is their choice, they have no right to intimidate others, especially children.

Baggs

I’m beginning to think that for some anti-vaxxers their resistance may be pathological and therefore only to be overcome by very devious psychological means, which themselves may be ethically questionable.

That aside, all the info I’m seeing about Omicron seems to suggest it’s not as
huge a threat as people feared at first.

And, after all, as Karol Sikora points out: “ Forcing the public by law to take a COVID vaccine is reprehensible.
It will tear society apart, cause unspeakable anger and set a horrific precedent. Choice, autonomy and freedom still matter in my view “

(My underlining).

I'm afraid nothing Sikora says would persuade me of anything. He's a charlatan, who has personally profited from the pandemic and believes in a form of Social Darwinism.

In reality we have not got choices because one way or another everyone will get the jab and that is how it will be so why did the government not say that in the first place?

Do you really need to ask?

The government has played politic with people's lives from the outset. It doesn't want to upset its powerful backbenchers and a significant sector of voters.

Harmonypuss

@Whitewavemark2

^Should the unvaccinated receive free hospital treatment for Covid?

We aren’t uncivilised, so yes of course they should.
Perhaps be charged half of the cost?^

I'm sorry, but IMO (other than those who CAN'T have the vaccine for medical reasons), I'd charge anti-vaxxers the FULL price of the treatment if they fell ill with Covid and then wanted treatment.
I could even be tempted to just give them the vaccine whilst they were in hospital coz they'd be having so many other drugs they wouldn't notice it!
Yes, I know, many would say that that's unethical but it's just the way I feel, I'm not a hospital worker so couldn't do it even if I wanted to but I just think these people are spreading the virus around, keeping it virulent in society for far longer than it would be if everyone (who medically could be) was vaccinated.
Grabs tin hat to wait for the fallout ?

It's social contacts, not lack of vaccination, which is spreading the virus around.

I don't like the label 'anti-vaxxers' which puts everyone who hasn't had the vaccination into one group. Some choose not to have the vaccination because they think there is some hidden agenda behind it, which may be irrational to some or not. Some choose not to have the vaccination because they are uncertain of its effects and have genuine issues about its safety. Some choose not to have the vaccination because they find themselves caught in a situation where you're damned if you do have it and you're damned if you're not. The virus and the vaccine both can have unpleasant consequences for some. It's a matter of balancing up those consequences and for some, this may be difficult to do.

Anyone who chooses not to have the vaccine when there is no medical contra-indication is stupid and selfish - I could apply other adjectives but they would probably get me banned.

growstuff

Baggs

I’m beginning to think that for some anti-vaxxers their resistance may be pathological and therefore only to be overcome by very devious psychological means, which themselves may be ethically questionable.

That aside, all the info I’m seeing about Omicron seems to suggest it’s not as
huge a threat as people feared at first.

And, after all, as Karol Sikora points out: “ Forcing the public by law to take a COVID vaccine is reprehensible.
It will tear society apart, cause unspeakable anger and set a horrific precedent. Choice, autonomy and freedom still matter in my view “

(My underlining).

I'm afraid nothing Sikora says would persuade me of anything. He's a charlatan, who has personally profited from the pandemic and believes in a form of Social Darwinism.

Indeed. The same person who inroduced himself to a Commons committee by saying "I am Karol Sikora, professor of oncology at Imperial College for 22 years."

Imperial College had to take legal advice on ways to prevent Sikora from using any title suggesting he has a position or formal association with it.

People have the right not to be vaccinated, but with rights comes responsibility. without both we cannot be a decent society. But whilst the anti vaxxers are exercising their rights it seems to me that they are irresponsible.

J Vine the other day mentioned an ICU doctor he'd been talking to who had 14 patients with covid. 3 of them had been jabbed, the remaining 11 were anti vaxxers. I don't agree that they should be forced into having the vaccine but I do think that they should not be allowed to go to many of the places where they will come into close contact with other people. I do not understand why there is so much antipathy towards the use of covid passports since they are very easy to use, especially if they are on mobile phones.

I do not understand why there is so much antipathy towards the use of covid passports since they are very easy to use, especially if they are on mobile phones.

Because they are id cards which are compulsory for participating in the public life of this country, but they only available to those who do what the government tells them.

I know this is a minority view, but I'll keep spouting it.

They are only available to those who do the right thing for themselves, society and the NHS.

That doesn't sound authoritarian at all.... ☹

?

I have only one thing to say to all the one who think they are right because none of us know what the bloody vaccines are doing to our body never mind the young so I actually think you should all shut your mouth and do what you want and let everyone else do the same

Lilikemaho

I have only one thing to say to all the one who think they are right because none of us know what the bloody vaccines are doing to our body never mind the young so I actually think you should all shut your mouth and do what you want and let everyone else do the same

... well that's a bit rude.

Why should we not discuss the issue - for or against?

Instead of telling people to "shut up" it might be a more useful contribution to explain your fears about the vaccine. And for your information, many who are pro-vaccine also have concerns about its side - or lasting - effects.

We need rational, informed debate, not individuals taking a stance and then trying to close down the conversation.

Living in France I have an ID card and a Pass Sanitaire on my telephone, neither of which interfere with my way of life.
What does make me mad is Google popping up each month with a map to show me where I've been and made calls from with my telephone.
I thought the Locstion thing was a clever tool in case I lost my phone
I never realised it was going to track me and then tell me each month,now that is surveillance

halfpint1

Living in France I have an ID card and a Pass Sanitaire on my telephone, neither of which interfere with my way of life.
What does make me mad is Google popping up each month with a map to show me where I've been and made calls from with my telephone.
I thought the Locstion thing was a clever tool in case I lost my phone
I never realised it was going to track me and then tell me each month,now that is surveillance

My family , the same in Germany, doesn’t interfere with their lives either. Why all the who ha in the UK I’m not sure. Germany and France both democratic countries. As you say, Google and others know more about your personal life etc. Lo and behold if people can’t access their services.

Just because one democratic country does something doesnt mean it's a good thing.

Norway, Ireland, Denmark, Australia, Canada.... all good democratic countries. None have compulsory id cards.

Incidentally, neither does France

Petera

growstuff

Baggs

I’m beginning to think that for some anti-vaxxers their resistance may be pathological and therefore only to be overcome by very devious psychological means, which themselves may be ethically questionable.

That aside, all the info I’m seeing about Omicron seems to suggest it’s not as
huge a threat as people feared at first.

And, after all, as Karol Sikora points out: “ Forcing the public by law to take a COVID vaccine is reprehensible.
It will tear society apart, cause unspeakable anger and set a horrific precedent. Choice, autonomy and freedom still matter in my view “

(My underlining).

I'm afraid nothing Sikora says would persuade me of anything. He's a charlatan, who has personally profited from the pandemic and believes in a form of Social Darwinism.

Indeed. The same person who inroduced himself to a Commons committee by saying "I am Karol Sikora, professor of oncology at Imperial College for 22 years."

Imperial College had to take legal advice on ways to prevent Sikora from using any title suggesting he has a position or formal association with it.

Taking against what someone has said because of who one perceives them to be is the very essence of prejudice.

What is wrong with what K Sikora is quoted as saying in the post above?

In short, play the ball not the man.

Baggs

In short, play the ball not the man.

I'm sorry, if something said by a known liar (and that includes Johnson) it is incumbent on the person quoting them in suport of an argument to justify the statement.

Otherwise we can all just make stuff up and challenge others to refute it.

Baggs

In short, play the ball not the man.

I'm sorry, if something said by a known liar (and that includes Johnson) it is incumbent on the person quoting them in support of an argument to justify the statement.

Otherwise we can all just make stuff up and challenge others to refute it.

In short, by bringing Sikora into your argument you put him in play.

Otherwise just make the argument. Or play the ball as you put it.

Yesterday in the News they said that cancer treatments and other medical treatments were having to be postponed because of the number of people receiving critical care because of COVID. Nine out of ten receiving critical care had not been vaccinated against COVID. Freedom of choice is one thing, but when it directly impacts on others…