Liz Truss replaces Lord Frost as chief negotiator with the EU

MaizieD I value friendship, if I am in trouble a friend will be there for me as opposed to a politician, whatever their party.

There is a wonderful world outside of politics…

How sad to read, especially on a site like Gransnet, that many reject their parents due to how they voted in the referendum.

Posts crossed, that was to Cali.

He sold his soul for poer, money and a place in the Lords- and therefore gave up all his beliefs, research and principles, to become what was required of him by his new Masters - and thus became vociferous in his support of Vote Leave- as he had no choice having accepted the above. That seems very clear, to me ... and yes, that is an opinion, and not really a fact - I suppose.

power

Just because something is published in a newspaper doesn't make it correct.

But if you object you get into dreary debates about 'correct usage' v. 'common usage' and 'language changes over time. And banished to Pedants' Corner...

Do you think he gave up on his principles for his own advancement?

Both Frost and Truss were 'apparently' strong Remainers. They may have published somewhere a coherent reason for changing sides but I've never seen it. In Trusses case one wonders if she just backed Remain for political convenience and changed her tune when it was no longer convenient. Perhaps she has no firm view in either direction, just goes where the wind blows her.

Frost is an enigma; minor diplomat and then a businessman. I'm inclined to the view that advancement is the key.

Is he going to give up his peerage in protest?

That seems very clear, to me ... and yes, that is an opinion, and not really a fact - I suppose

Ooh I’ll make room for you on the north step Kali2!

GG13 andJosieann ?? x 100.

No need for naughty step right now- there is nowt wrong with an 'opinion' as long as you don't put it forwards as a 'fact' and agree it can be disputed. Knowing the difference is quite important, methinks.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD I value friendship, if I am in trouble a friend will be there for me as opposed to a politician, whatever their party.

There is a wonderful world outside of politics…

That doesn't actually answer my question, GG13

Kali2

But do you discuss the issues, the facts, the consequences- or ignore them?

I belong to several pro EU/remain groups (no surprise there, hey!) - and you just cannot believe the number who say that they just have to make any excuse not to meet up with some friends, family and especially older parents (like Frost, the use Covid as an excuse) who voted for Brexit- which is so affecting their lives. Many of course who live in the EU and just cannot bear to visit parents or have them over to visit, and are actually dreading Covid to be over, in a way.

I know you won't believe me, but ...

Well I don't believe it Kali2.
My politician uncle I spoke of earlier campaigned to leave the EU. It was painful for him because his wife was a remainer and their children outright European federalists. God forbid that this disharmony of opinion should cause such a rift as you mention in the family, in fact the children visit their father on a weekly basis taking the grandchildren with them.
I think I would rather respect this great man and his offspring than the attitude of posters on pro EU/remain groups who say they can't bear to go near their parents.

Dinahmo

This is a political thread and people will have widely different views. However, if you come up with unfounded comments then you should expect to be queried.

There's an old saying - if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

I think that some people think that arguing with something is rude, or impolite. It is neither, unless the comments are personally unkind. I can't say that I've seen unkind comments on here.

Expect to be queried yes....not jumped on from a great height!
And I must say Dinahmo that you often say that you don’t see any unkind comments...even when they are staring everybody else in the face.

I don’t believe it either Kali.
It may be that some keyboard warriors say that kind of daft thing on forums but real life is quite different.

Lots of friends believed the Brexit diatribe 4 yrs ago and hoped for a better deal, they are still friends, it is just a subject not to be discussed in company. It’s only an issue if you make it an issue, I would not dream of starting a political dispute with a friend.

Josieannn
Obviously a broad minded family, like some of us on GN.

Lemongrove
I believe it. We have a poster on this thread, who, in a previous life told us she wouldn’t mix with anyone who voted for Brexit.

Meryl
Either keyboard warrior bravado or a complete twerp then!
?

As to MP’s and Ministers voting in the referendum, they were allowed their own views at the time and their own vote, just like anyone else but the people of the UK expected them to then act on the results ( which Parliament voted to do.)
Therefore it doesn’t matter if Liz Truss or any other Minister voted to Remain and is now part of the negotiation with the EU about Brexit.They want it to work and are doing their best to make it go well whichever way they voted at the time.

And isn't what this thread is partly about? The integrity and moral principles of the individual which sometimes clash with other people's expectations of them?

*isn't that what ...

lemongrove

I don’t believe it either Kali.
It may be that some keyboard warriors say that kind of daft thing on forums but real life is quite different.

I am telling you as it is- and seen multiple and multiple times and recently even more. But you believe what you wish - you believed in Johnson, and Frost, and Brexit ... and I did not. Et voilà.

MerylStreep - what a strange memory you have, because I for one, cannot remember, anyone, just anyone, who ever said this here.

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD I value friendship, if I am in trouble a friend will be there for me as opposed to a politician, whatever their party.

There is a wonderful world outside of politics…

That doesn't actually answer my question, GG13

MaizieD , the referendum happened 5 1/2 years ago old news. The minutiae of the agreements/disagreements will go on for ever…

To be continuously having the same conversations would in my opinion be very odd. When I meet up with friends we discuss holidays, our businesses, our families and a myriad of other topics.

I pop into the politics threads to see if anything has changed and no it hasn’t the same posters are having the same conversations that were taking place when I joined GN 4 years ago.

MerylStreep

Lemongrove
I believe it. We have a poster on this thread, who, in a previous life told us she wouldn’t mix with anyone who voted for Brexit.

Yep I remember them and the post very well.

Josieann

How sad to read, especially on a site like Gransnet, that many reject their parents due to how they voted in the referendum.

Josieann, perhaps because it has completely ruined their dreams and aspirations, and that of the grandchildren. Many accepted that their parents were taken in by the promises and the lies during the Campaign- and could live with that. But they just cannot accept that now we all know they were false promises, and were definitely lies- and all the 'project fear' warnings have turned to be true on speed- and still no change of mind, no regrets, and claim they would do the same- is just too much, far too much, to bear.

GG13 ''... to see if anything has changed and no it hasn’t the same posters are having the same conversations that were taking place when I joined GN 4 years ago.''

it is indeed tragic, I agree. Especially now it is CLEAR, beyond any doubt, that those conversations were based on lies, and that all the warnings were called 'scare mongering project fear'. You'd have thought that now it is all CLEAR, and the consequences- people would have changed their mind. But no ... hey ho.