Russian massing on the Ukrainian border

Ukraine does not want to be part of Putin's Russia.
Although not an EU country it is a European country which wants its sovereignty and freedoms. The Deputy Prime minister said they did not want to be part of a one-leader cult.

Press Release:
www.gov.uk/government/news/kremlin-plan-to-install-pro-russian-leadership-in-ukraine-exposed

The Ukraine situation has been caused in part because there are still Russian speaking peoples who identify with being Russian and do not want to become Westernised or join Nato. From Russias view if all the bordering countries join Nato, then Russia could be seriously under threat and under the thumb to Europe. The Crimea, although annexed as part of Russia, is another potential threat to Russia's Black Sea Ports. It is not a simple solution and in my view nothing really to do with us. The US should be sorting this out.

Interesting point Fashionista1.

“The EU’s deafening silence on Russian aggression makes war more likely”

“For the first time in a generation Europe is on the brink of war. Only strength can stop Putin now”
TOM TUGENDHAT

Callistemon and Fashonista- of course we all agree on this.

But how do you think they can do this

''The US should be sorting this out.''

please?!? And without involving the UK, either on its own (which is very very dangerous) or with UK and Europe?

H O W ?

Have you ever heard of the concept of M A D in the context of nuclear weapons?

Urmstongran

Interesting point Fashionista1.

But fallacious.

Why should the USA be sorting out European problems except as part of NATO?
Being part of NATO means being in an alliance with other countries, in Europe!

The US should be sorting this out.
There is no logic in this statement

effalump

I find this far more scary than covid. It's not like a war would just be firing guns at each other. If one leader is angry enough to press the red button, then it's game over.

I am 'glad' (and that is not the right word) - that you understand this. And you are so right.

M A D has held so far, it held during the Cuban crisis and teh Cold War. But will it hold forever.

We have had a few mad psycopaths around for a while. In North Korea, Trump - and now Putin.

Callistemon21

Urmstongran

Interesting point Fashionista1.

But fallacious.

Why should the USA be sorting out European problems except as part of NATO?
Being part of NATO means being in an alliance with other countries, in Europe!

The US should be sorting this out.
There is no logic in this statement

No logic indeed.

And yet, can we say that there is logic in the UK getting so involved, and without the backing of the rest of Europe. Can't you see just how dangerous it is, with someone like Putin.

Signing off for a while.

The US should be sorting this out
There is no logic in this statement. I agree with you Calli.
It was more her take on the situation with Russians in the Ukraine that made me stop to think.

This sounds like burying my head in the sand, but I daren’t even think about the possible consequences. There seems to be so many problems in this world. I have little innocent grandchildren and I often fear for their future. I hope this Russia/Ukraine situation doesn’t escalate - it’s not looking good.

We are still in NATO and the EU doesn't have an army - yet....

“The UK is working through Nato and in lockstep with the US to enact a policy of dialogue and deterrence, pursuing the diplomatic track but readying a package of sanctions that will pierce the heart of Russia’s economy should that fail.”

Fashionista1

The Ukraine situation has been caused in part because there are still Russian speaking peoples who identify with being Russian and do not want to become Westernised or join Nato. From Russias view if all the bordering countries join Nato, then Russia could be seriously under threat and under the thumb to Europe. The Crimea, although annexed as part of Russia, is another potential threat to Russia's Black Sea Ports. It is not a simple solution and in my view nothing really to do with us. The US should be sorting this out.

There are enclaves of people all over the world who are living in countries that they are not entirely happy with. There's even Kaliningrad, which is a Russian enclave between Poland and Lithuania. Massing tanks on the border and rattling your sabre is not a valid way of protecting what they think their rights are - a natural extension of that would be for Russia to threaten Poland and Lithuania because their Russian compatriots are feeling a bit hemmed in.

Russia needs to stop thinking that everyone is out to get them and perhaps take on the concepts of democracy.

And as for leaving it to the US, nobody died and made them world police. Or is it just because Ukraine is a far away country of which we know nothing?

The EU should be presenting more of a united front, if not militarily then certainly showing more diplomatic strength.
Otherwise what is the point of it other than as a trading block?

This is far more important than partygate yet we seldom see any report on it in the media here. I have to resort to looking at RT or even Aljazeera if I want to see news about this, or almost any thing else. BBC and ITV should hang their heads in shame. Their news is so limited.

I’ve noticed and it’s very worrying ! Quite honestly I wish they’d all shut up about lockdown parties in number 10 so the government can focus on governing. I bet Putin is loving the distraction of our politicians fighting each other. Bet he’s laughing his head off at us!

Kali2

It is massively worrying. And the fact that the UK, now totally isolated from its European Allies and partners, is now sending arm to Ukraine- is beyond dangerous.

Quite ! Who do we think we are??? A major global power? An empire with far reaching strengths? Anything other than a sad little stand alone set of Islands currently governed over by a bunch of nose picking fag beating public school sniggering buffoons? God (if she's listening) help us. And STOP bigging up our part! There's nobody who will be prepared to help us out if we end up in the poo!

All our so named news channels are a disgrace! They're tantamount to red top rags on steroids! News? Don't know the meaning of the word!

MAD only effective when both play by same rules.i don't even want to contemplate someone deciding to clear the ground first-say with a devastatingly deadly virus to kill off those capable of defending themselves? Leaving an "empty" to be moved in to.....

The USA are the only comparable power equipped to counter the Russia threat, simple maths.they have the money, equipment and the numbers to chuck back at them, like it or not they are actually the best thing the free world has to protect it. The rest of us are just stuffing.

The closer Russia gets to Western Europe and beyond, the closer it gets to USA who are still terrified of reds under the beds. They'll do anything to keep Russia basically in Russia or at least in the east of eastern Europe and owners remotely close to knocking on the Whitehouse door..chucking stones across a river is safer than allowing the enemy onto your own side of the riverbank. Putin is drunk on power, and you can't reason with a drunk

All the while President Macron and Ursula von der Leon are in charge, we will never be able to have a mature conversation with the EU. They have shown their true colours IMO

Kali2
Scroll down to The End of Mad

www.thoughtco.com/mutually-assured-destruction-1221190

I know a lot about MAD through a friend who was on nuclear subs in the 80s.

listening to lunch time news, there is a suggestion that Russia is preparing to install a pro Russian leader in Ukraine post invasion. Even more worrying. Isn't Ukraine a democratic country/

Daisymae -you and me both !

I find the situation hugely worrying and potentially extremely dangerous .

And yet ,here is the constant media obsession with Boris Johnson ,their wallpaper , partygate and yet another Royal scandal .

I don't condone sex trafficking nor pretend for one moment that Prince Andrew hasn't done something very silly in continuing his association with Epstein .

A situation as volatile as this one with Putin has far great consequences .

And yet ,when I mentioned it to my friends it was airily dismissed .