Two Years of Keir Starmer. What do we think?

I don’t think the country would vote for either

At this moment in time what could possibly be better than an opposition leader who knows the letter of the law inside out? And knows when to keep quiet and let people incriminate themselves.

I like Starmer but I will vote for any Labour leader. I think once we have Labour/LibDem in parliament is the time to think about exactly what sort of policies we want, I think now he is playing ultra safe cos its the media that kills off Labours chances with ridiculous photos of bacon sandwiches etc. I think thats why he has chuckled out JC etc, cos he must leave no opportunity for the papers to attack. Having said that I might vote LibDem next time cos I'm in a Labour safe seat & like north Shropshire, its probably the only way to get the tories out, which is my highest priority

I think there is a good argument to see Johnson limp on for some time yet in order to inflict maximum damage on the Tory party.

It is a real balance though.

MayBee70

At this moment in time what could possibly be better than an opposition leader who knows the letter of the law inside out? And knows when to keep quiet and let people incriminate themselves.

Well one who won't be regarded by the red wall as a Westminster Centralist Remain leader for a start. You may think he knows when to keep quiet, others might think he just has nothing to say.
He has just effectively proved the Red Wall right the Labour party is a Westminster party and doesn't really care about regional support.

trisher

MayBee70

At this moment in time what could possibly be better than an opposition leader who knows the letter of the law inside out? And knows when to keep quiet and let people incriminate themselves.

Well one who won't be regarded by the red wall as a Westminster Centralist Remain leader for a start. You may think he knows when to keep quiet, others might think he just has nothing to say.
He has just effectively proved the Red Wall right the Labour party is a Westminster party and doesn't really care about regional support.

You are swallowing the sort of argument we saw from the leave campaign, Johnson and what we saw by Trump in USA.

Sorry Whitewave2 how am I "swallowing" anything I'm simply quoting the reasons expressed by those who abandoned Labour in 2019. Nothing to do with what I think.

Why would anyone vote for him. He doesn’t do nothing but sit on the fence. He’s repeating everything that scum media print he never has anything to say about what is happening in the real world. So no I’d never vote for him. He’s as exciting has watching paint dry

trisher

Sorry Whitewave2 how am I "swallowing" anything I'm simply quoting the reasons expressed by those who abandoned Labour in 2019. Nothing to do with what I think.

Oh sorry I misunderstood.

I thought that was also what you thought.

Casdon

‘People’were not willing to support Starmer trisher, nobody was going to measure up to their hero, and Starmer was not in their top choices for the replacement either. Dissent was there from the beginning.
I agree Iam64. It’s smoke and mirrors.

Of course I was willing to support Starmer Casdon if he had done what he promised to do. But surely even you don't believe he has carried out the necessary investigtion or dealt with the issue of right wing interference which caused delays in dealing with antisemitism? Or that he has actually united the party? He won the leadership in April. He paid out money unnecessarily, and against legal advice, in July. Then my support began to slip away.

This is going round and round trisher. I will bite my lip. All I will say is that I don’t agree with your interpretation of the facts. You want the party to be united because you believe that a left agenda can be pursued. I believe that the left of the party will never be happy with anything other than a left wing agenda, and that is unelectable. I have said many times that I think the party needs to split, and for the left to go down their own route so that a moderate, socialist agenda can be pursued by those who support that agenda - and which is electable. I know you don’t agree, and I don’t see the point in arguing any further as neither of us will be convinced by the other’s perspective.

OK Casdon you won't answer or tell me why it was OK for Starmer to reinstate those responsible for the alleged offences at the time of the 2017 election, or if you are happy that an inquiry has taken over two years to report. So lets do a parrallel situation. Would you be happy if it was alleged that certain Downing Street employees were responsible for the party held there during lockdown but Boris continued to guarantee their employment? Or if he delayed the findings of an inquiry into that party for a couple of years?
If not why is that so important, but OK that the shenanigans that possibly influenced a general election, and therefore the democratic process, can be ignored? Simply it seems because you like Starmer.

trisher

OK Casdon you won't answer or tell me why it was OK for Starmer to reinstate those responsible for the alleged offences at the time of the 2017 election, or if you are happy that an inquiry has taken over two years to report. So lets do a parrallel situation. Would you be happy if it was alleged that certain Downing Street employees were responsible for the party held there during lockdown but Boris continued to guarantee their employment? Or if he delayed the findings of an inquiry into that party for a couple of years?
If not why is that so important, but OK that the shenanigans that possibly influenced a general election, and therefore the democratic process, can be ignored? Simply it seems because you like Starmer.

Well Said trisher

No, It’s because I don’t want to bore the rest of Gransnet again with an argument we have rehearsed what already feels like a hundred times trisher.

trisher

MayBee70

At this moment in time what could possibly be better than an opposition leader who knows the letter of the law inside out? And knows when to keep quiet and let people incriminate themselves.

Well one who won't be regarded by the red wall as a Westminster Centralist Remain leader for a start. You may think he knows when to keep quiet, others might think he just has nothing to say.
He has just effectively proved the Red Wall right the Labour party is a Westminster party and doesn't really care about regional support.

Trisher
You couldn’t be more right. They haven’t a clue ?

So it's OK for you to keep making allegations about left wingers and my attitude towards Starmer, and to question my views Casdon but you've already given yours so any discussion isn't necessary and would be boring. Well at least I know that my posts can't be boring or you wouldn't keep asking would you?
By the way should the party split I do wonder where Starmer would get his money from. The Unions would fund the left plus thousands of people would rejoin and pay their fees and some would leave Starmer. I wonder how many members he would have left? And if he could afford to fight an election.

Breaking: Pidcock resigns NEC – ‘the right will never do right thing’

Leader devoid of vision for anything but party control, says former MP

Former Labour MP Laura Pidcock has resigned from the party’s national executive, blaming the determination of the right to keep.doing wrong – and Keir Starmer’s lack of political ideas.

Here is her full statement

skwawkbox.org/2022/01/26/breaking-paddock-resigns-nec-the-right-will-never-do-right-thing/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=breaking-paddock-resigns-nec-the-right-will-never-do-right-thing

Yes I am delighted she was my MP. Winning elections was not something that was important to her. This means there is no chance she will stand again in this area.

So there you have it exactly how the right on the LP behave to the left wing. Laura Piddock could spend two years trying to work with Starmer and the right of the party, trying to reach a compromise, trying to establish centre ground and a united party, but when it becomes impossible and she has to leave someone thinks it is OK because they didn't like her. It isn't the left who are entrenched and refusing to shift, it is the right. And the ridiculous thing is they do so with no proof whatsoever that their views are supported by any of the electorate. The Westminster bubble goes from strength to strength.

Galaxy

Yes I am delighted she was my MP. Winning elections was not something that was important to her. This means there is no chance she will stand again in this area.

Yes, she is no loss to the Labour party

Iam64

Galaxy

Yes I am delighted she was my MP. Winning elections was not something that was important to her. This means there is no chance she will stand again in this area.

Yes, she is no loss to the Labour party

She hasn't left the LP she has resigned from the NEC. showing once again how Starmer is failing to unite the party.

No trisher, no

''f not why is that so important, but OK that the shenanigans that possibly influenced a general election, and therefore the democratic process, can be ignored? Simply it seems because you like Starmer''

it is because we are possibly on the edge of a GE, or at least in a couple of years- and the LP is to be ready to face up to the challenge, and to win. Because the alternative does not bear even thinking about.

Whether this is right, or wrong, or anything in between- the Labour left will never ever win in the world of today. The world has changed, aspitrations have changed. Divided, THEY will rule again. And Starmer, educated and very intelligent, very experience and calm, principled (yes oh yes) - who wants decent education and health service for all, and a strong safety net for those who fall + help to get up again and contribute to the common good- is exactly what the UK needs and what will win.

Corbyn has gone, and forever. The past is the past. The LP has to adjust and strive forwards. With the above in mind, but with a strong economy and incentives to do well- with a fair tax system with no holes in it for the very rich- but without the kind of visceral hatred for anyone who works very hard and does well- and an economy that will thrive with them and fair taxes.

It's not that I dont like her Trisher, it's that she was a terrible constituency MP and I have been vaguely worried that she would seek selection again. This indicates that wont be the case.

There was no Westminter bubble here just a lot of people who didnt vote for her. The electorate were quite clear about what they wanted or rather didnt.

I wonder why the only people who keep bringing Corbyn up are the Starmer supporters. I never mention him. I know he''s gone. It seems the only way the right can justify the absolute destruction Starmer has brought as leader is to say - "Well you want Corbyn back." I don't. I want a leader who will do as he promised and unite the party. I don't want a witch hunt that chucks out Jews who support Palestine, members of groups they don't like, outspoken local activists or forces others to resign because they find a complete lack of compromise from the right. I want a leader who doesn't throw money away, gathers support from working people and the Unions and acknowledges the independence of local parties. I don't want a right wing bigot who lies, deceives and gathers power to Westminster central.