Nicola Sturgeon vows to start process of second independence referendum

Well said. That's how a lot of people I know feel including myself. I am Scottish and I do live in Scotland just to be clear.

Buttercup1954

Well said. That's how a lot of people I know feel including myself. I am Scottish and I do live in Scotland just to be clear.

Well said who ? The hideous insulting rant from Mummer ?

Aveline

Unfortunately SNP fans don't check facts or even read deeply into documents. They are led by sound bites from Nicola.

Wow. Why do we see personal or sweeping generalised insults instead of reasoned arguments.
I am quite offended by your comment Aveline.
I think there are intelligent, thoughtful people among the supporters of every main political party. I am an SNP member - others in my family aren't, but we do overwhelmingly support independence.
Independence is the normal situation for a country and we were independent for centuries.
Most people in Scotland who support independence have no anti-English sentiments and many are not necessarily SNP supporters. We just want to run our own affairs as those who live here are best placed to do so. We might not have unanimity on all policies, even EU membership; we were, however, dragged out of the EU against our will. We are a country, not a village, town or city - so the fact that, as a country, we voted to stay does matter. We would have difficult decisions to make and financial challenges, no doubt - it will be up to us to solve them. A robust constitution and more citizen involvement in decisions will help to achieve this.
I would also hope that our success as a social democracy would encourage voters in England to expect more of their government and vote accordingly. I lived in England for around 7 years as a child and have close relatives there - I do not want to see anyone suffer through the increased privatisation of the NHS or more illogical austerity policies whereby the rich get richer and richer and fraudulent contracts go to party donors who set up companies to promise things they can't deliver etc.
I agree with everything Alegrias1 says and there's no point repeating it all.
One of the strategies used to persuade voters to vote No in 2014 was that we wouldn't be able to stay in the EU. No irony/hypocrisy there!
Scotland is perfectly capable of running it's own economy, using a suitable currency, paying its pensioners a better pension etc.
Education, health and wellbeing no doubt can be improved on but are certainly not the disaster some folk have tried to suggest (my DH and I and many members of our family have or do work in these areas). Our free university tuition, free prescriptions and extra support for children along with mitigations against UK policies such as the bedroom tax make it a fairer ( not perfect) place to live at the moment. These are not subsided by rUK by the way.
I get the feeling all GNs want a better, fairer, more equal society for our children and grandchildren. Can we stick to reasoned arguments re the best way for Scotland (as on this thread) or the whole of UK to achieve this?

Lucca

Mummer

Buttercup yours so right! Scotland would not qualify to have Euro. Its finances would also present a huge obstacle to qualifying too unless they cheat as the Greeks? She's a very unfunny joke with her spikey Leboutins (higher the heel-lower the class) and crusty makeup with vampire slits of lips à là Thatcher! She like a scrawny pantomime dame and her appearances seem to feature herself above all else, even what she's supposed to be talking about! Self driven meglamaniac! Poor Scots need to oust her asap before she destroys them completely, a union that's lasted all that history has chucked at it should not be destroyed by a poison kiss from this vampira

That is a terrible post. All those vicious comments about her physical appearance.
If it weren’t the middle of the day I’d think you’d been drinking.

Agreed. Vicious comments about a person's appearance are unnecessary and do nothing for this discussion. I dislike Ms Sturgeon's politics, but I admire her smart dress and crisp delivery, even if I don't agree with all that she says.

Well this has been quite comical, really.

A bunch of people ranting on about how racist, divisive, irresponsible, and useless Scotland/SNP/Sturgeon/the Independence movement are (delete as applicable). A bunch of people who seem to think we survive on oil, whisky and highland dancers. A bunch of people who have no idea what Scotland’s like now. There are certainly people who live in Scotland who think this way. But, I’ll say this again, because many of you seem to have missed it. However much you witter on about how Scotland doesn’t like her, Sturgeon is still the only UK leader with a positive approval score. The SNP still won more votes in an election not quite a year ago, than anybody had won before in Scotland. They’ve still got 80% of the seats available to them in Westminster. So somebody likes them.

So rant on all you like about how you abhor her/them/us. There’s plenty that don’t and I’m sorry to say I’ve just got an image when I read your comments of an angry group of wifies shaking their fists and demanding that we listen to them because they’ve got it right and we haven’t.

And as for the people telling us we’ll never survive, what will we live on, you can’t have the pound you know. Consider perhaps that all you’re doing is making yourself feel better and shouting into your echo chamber. The echo chamber that still thinks we’re scrounging jocks in kilts wanting to take the poor long suffering rUK for every penny.

So, to finish this post, some corrections.
The SNP only do things for young folk? Free bus travel for over sixties, free prescriptions, free social care. (pauses for envious frothing to subside).
There’s no such constituency as Buchan Susysue.
We will still have equivalent funding to the Barnett Formula after independence because we won’t have to send any of our own revenue down south to finance HS2 or Trident or the like. We’ll keep our own money, thanks. Including what we raise from our higher tax rates and thresholds, raised from the people who work in our knowledge economy that doesn’t have to rely on heavy industry, pce612.

So just do a bit of comparison between the thoughtful and reasoned posts of grandtanteJE65, esky, yogitree and the like, and compare them with the vicious and ill-informed ramblings of the anti -independence gang.

And ask yourself why we might possibly want to go.

Well, well. There are those who say we hate the English - we don't - but there are obviously some people who hate us! (Judging by the lack of command of the language and the unfamiliar names I wonder if President Putin is amongst us with his stirring spoon. Just saying.)

I recently met a very nice man from Kent who was on holiday here and his mask reminded me that I hadn't put mine on since coming inside. I thanked him, and he said that in the United Kingdom, where he came from, they weren't necessary in as many places as they are here. I pointed out gently that we were still in the United Kingdom, and he seemed surprised to hear it. This was someone who said he had enjoyed frequent visits to Scotland, so it may not be surprising that a lot of people in other parts of the UK don't understand Scotland (and why should they?).

To be clear too, I am Scottish, live in Scotland, support independence and am not keen on the SNP.

grandtanteJE65, esky, yogitree and the like

And now add ElaineRI55

Ah. So if they agree with you that's fine Alegrias. I agree with you on many topics but assuredly not on Scottish independence.

Having said that I am not keen on the SNP, I just think they need a bit of a rest after so long in power (by election, repeatedly, as others have pointed out) but we do not have an alternative at the moment. I would still regard Nicola Sturgeon as a better leader and a better communicator than Boris Johnson or any of the possible replacements for him.

Childish, Aveline. Childish.

They didn't call anybody names and they didn't try to make Scotland and the Scots feel small and stupid.

I'm away to listen to Nicola making a sensible report on the state of the pandemic and not try to pretend she went to a party but didn't know it was a party and nobody told her.

GrannyGravy13

I would be sad to see Scotland leave the union, but if that is what the majority vote for I hope it is successful for Scotland.

Thank you GrannyGravy. That is a really nice thing to say. As a Scot, who has lived in and has family in both Scotland and England, I respect all the people of the British Isles and would want us all to live decent lives. . I would personally like to have the option of voting for a federal system with a Parliament for England too, so that more issues could be decided by region but we could still have a central government for other issues , perhaps defence and a common currency. I don’t know whether English grannies would want England divided up into Northern England and Southern England perhaps. I do think having a Parliament has been good for Scotland. It has brought energy and discussion of the sort of society we want to live in to our own area in a way that we can own and feel involved in. And voting patterns do seem to show differences in the way people in different regions want to live. Though many English people have chosen to live in Scotland in recent years. My best wishes to all north and south of the border.

If she gets Independence I'm moving to Scotland, I love it anyway and am half Scots and yes, I'd welcome a move back to Europe if that became possible, I consider myself European

Kettle's on Soniah

If Scotland gets independence, then they can’t come on our quiz programmes etc, as they will be non British. Always a silver lining ??

Alegrias1,

Answer the questions posed. I support Scotland being independent if that is what the majority want.

But, where will the money to run an independent Scotland come from. And his long will it take to rejoin the EU?

If I was a Scot those are the questions I would ask.

Once the Barnett formula money ends where is your source of finance%?

Don’t you think such questions are valid?

Soniah

If she gets Independence I'm moving to Scotland, I love it anyway and am half Scots and yes, I'd welcome a move back to Europe if that became possible, I consider myself European

We’re all European. That’s geography. You can’t do anything about that. We’re not in the EU any more, that’s politics. That can be remedied if the will is there.

Alegrias have a good time listening to Nicola drone on and on taking up as much time as she can. In the event of any awkward questions you can expect her to snap back with personal comments or than she can't actually recall what she's asked about. The level of 'debate' at Holyrood has plummeted. Donald Dewar and Margo McDonald would be appalled.

Annie1

Since answers are demanded, I will endeavour to provide them.

Where will the money come from? From the taxes we raise. From our sources of income. From all the same places as other countries raise money on which to survive. Becuase we are a country, not a vassal state dependent on somebody else to keep us in the manner to which we have become accustomed.

How long will it take to join the EU? Don't know. But I know how long it will take to start the process of application after independence is achieved. About 20 minutes.

What happens after the Barnett formula money ends? We stop sending our own money down south and living on handouts that we're meant to be grateful for. (This is the same as question 1, BTW)

Can I say this once and then maybe hope that nobody asks it again?

The Barnett Formula is not a lovely donation made by the generous and kind hearted politicians of WM in order to save the poor wee Scots from penury and starvation. We pay our share into the central coffers and get an amount back via the Barnett Formula.

Are the questions valid? Yes? Do we get fed up with people asking the same questions over and over again and then complaining that they don't like what they hear? Oh yes. Most assuredly.

Aveline

Alegrias have a good time listening to Nicola drone on and on taking up as much time as she can. In the event of any awkward questions you can expect her to snap back with personal comments or than she can't actually recall what she's asked about. The level of 'debate' at Holyrood has plummeted. Donald Dewar and Margo McDonald would be appalled.

What did you think of the bit today where she explained that the statistics organisation had agreed with her characterisation of the comparative infection rates in Scotland and England and that Rennie was being disingenuous in trying to say otherwise?

That was the bit just before Ross started on the "why didn't you do what we told you to" tirade.

Lucca
No I was replying to pce612 actually. Never even saw the post by mummer

agree

they have been brainwashed for over 300 years that Scotland is too poor etc etc and that the mighty English with such generosity has kept us ,mind you they used us for our brainpower and our manpower in their wars ,

When and it will be WHEN we gain Independence there will be millions in shock when they realise that far from US scrounging off England we've been the mainstay of their economy ...long before oil was discovered and certainly they have bled us dry since ,
Now they've turned their eyes to our renewables and our water .We;; guess what ..none of those will be FREELY available anymore .Scotland pays massive fees to ADD power to the so called national grid when every other producer in the UK who supplies the grid gets paid for it. Such an equal union ,no its not and it has never been .
We would prefer good neighbours rather than bad "masters" for that is what Westminster is .Saor Alba

Half Scot, and she was voted in on independence- go for if Scotland. Vote and be free

Paddyann54
No one has been brainwashed about being too poor, too wee etc. But most of us have been educated to a high standard and taught to weigh things up for ourselves with our head not our hearts. I find it insulting that you even said such a thing. We should be able to have our opinion whether you agree with it or not. Scotland was always previously a fair and free country. Nowadays, sadly, there are a lot of bitter people living here.

Has anyone actually visited Nicola Sturgeon's constituency? I have and it was worse than you could ever imagine.
I lived around that area when I was newly married 50 years ago. It was not top drawer but it was decent. I had to visit a medical facility there around 2 pm and was terrified and horrified in equal measure.
I would like the Independence from England. I and several friends had English husbands and they left us with bad impressions of the English.
I do not think we should be part of Europe. Independence should mean that Scotland is a single entity.