Nicola Sturgeon vows to start process of second independence referendum

It is a dead duck and she knows it. She's been promising a referendum every year since 2016. People in Scotland are heartily sick of her. She has caused nothing but hatred and division in Scotland amid a litany of failures. But she's still collecting her huge salary and enjoying the power.

You've already had a vote, and lost.

What do you want, best out of three?

Good luck to them if that's what the majority want. But how will they finance their economy? Or pay for all the free things they have now eg universities etc.

Alegrias1

Tory are ye?

Or just sarcastic and selfish?

Oh Alegrias1, you are at it again!!! Typical SNP supporter who just cannot hear a thing against them!! For all of you out there who do not live in scotland, do not believe all the propaganda that SNP supporters, the party, the media spout!! There is a very large population in Scotland like myself, who do not believe in independence now or in the future. Had it happened in the 1970's when the revenue from oil in the North Sea could have sustained us financially as an independent country but we missed the boat. We cannot sustain scotland independently now and I know of many people and businesses who will up and leave if sturgeon and her mob get their own way. For your information Alegrias1, paddyone etc, my father was a staunch SNP supporter who knew Alex Salmond well when he was MP for Buchan and indeed was a SNP party member. I also voted snp for many years but not now. The SNP under sturgeon are totally ineffectual but bloody good at propaganda!! God help us all in scotland if they achieve Sturgeon's obsessional goal of independence. For months during the first lockdown, at every weekly press conference, she even used these as her platform for spouting about independence when all people wanted to hear was how we were going to get back our normal day to day lives.... many scottish people were very angry about her doing this.

Buttercup1954

It is a dead duck and she knows it. She's been promising a referendum every year since 2016. People in Scotland are heartily sick of her. She has caused nothing but hatred and division in Scotland amid a litany of failures. But she's still collecting her huge salary and enjoying the power.

Well said Buttercup!

I for one would be mightily relieved to see this question settled once and for all (and no longer have to endure Sturgeon’s vitriolic and racist presence on my TV screen) but fear that it will rumble on and on. Without Westminster backing this there can be no second referendum, as per legislation enacted at the time of the 2014 referendum (‘once in a lifetime chance to decide Scotland’s future’!) So what on earth is the SNP thinking-just hold their own and scarper off? I would also be most interested to find out just how Scotland intends to finance itself, relying as they do on the present goodwill of the Green Party who wants to put an end to the oil industry on which Scotland depends so much for jobs etc, let alone fuel for domestic and industrial use! Perhaps the SNP should be a little more transparent about just how they will manage! The EU will not welcome them with open arms despite their best hopes. Still, that’s a possible future problem for them to solve! Perhaps then we too in England will receive free prescriptions, bus passes at 60, easier access to state benefits, no tuition fees for our students etc etc when the Barnet formula is ended! One thing we will not need is the drug problem- worst in Europe isn’t it?

Unfortunately a UK government led by a shambolic Old Etonian plays right into the hands of the SNP. I just hope there is a plan to let Scottish voters know exactly how much independence would actually cost them. On a recent holiday in Scotland a friend was amazed to hear an independence supporter saying they would still receive the Barnet Formula funding post independence.

I don't find those comments 'fatuous'.
I too think we English should have a vote as to whether we want Scotland to stay in the Union.
I'm fed up with the constant whingeing from the Scots. At least if they gain independence we can retain the money they are given and use it to improve England's NHS and our cities in the North of England.

What hasn't been said is that the total population of Scotland is approx. 2 million less (6 million) than that of London alone. Not a lot in taxes to be got after independence.
Scotland gets an awful lot of money from central government, which will stop if it gets independence. Distilleries can only generate so much in taxes. There is not much in the way of heavy industry either and what will happen to oil refineries if there is no oil to refine?
If Scotland is to become carbon neutral how can it still rely on income from oil and gas fields?
Who knows how many companies will up sticks and move their headquarters elsewhere? Unless they get good tax breaks.
Who is going to pay for healthcare if there is no NHS?
Same for the armed forces, will Scotland have it's own defence services?
How is the central pension pot going to be split up?
The BBC?

Basically, who is going to pay for it all? I don't want to be living in a 3rd world country.

It is true that we do have a good tourist industry and wonderful scenery but we also have a colder climate and shorter daylight hours in the winter.

Rant over.

As taking today

Not all Scots want independence of England, but a great many do.

There are many reasons for it, going all the way back to 1603, when Elizabeth Tudor died and her nearest Protestant relation James VI of Scotland became king of England as well as king of Scotland.

In practically any other country a similar state of affairs would most likely have resulted in the king's original country taking over the new kingdom. James apparently felt uncertain of his welcome in England and chose to move to London. Admittedly the Stuarts were quite often in Scotland after that, but as time went on and the Stuart kings were replaced by the House of Hannover and the Scottish Parliament was disbanded, leaving the former English parliament in London as the UK's only parliament, Scotland began to feel more and more marganilised and ill-done by.

Having grown up in Scotland this brief historical review was part of my schooling, but I early realised that English people know nothing or little of all these facts and genuinely do not understand why Scotland could possibly feel a desire for independence.

An Independant Scotland and the EU?

Well, as Scotland had a majority who voted for remaining in the EU there is good reason to believe that an Independant Scotland will ask to rejoin the EU.

However, the population of Scotland compares quite reasonably to that of Norway and Norway is not a member of the EU, so Scotland might be able to go it alone, although why Scotland would want to, as most Scots didn't want to leave the EU baffles me.

I realise that these political threads tend to lead to mud-slinging, but if you read a little Scottish history south of the border, you might just start to realise how some, perhaps most Scots feel about the whole United Kingdom.

IMO the United Kingdom has never been anything but a ironic statement. Geographically speaking the majority of British citizens who live in the British Isles live in England. This means that the majority of voters live there too, and have never bothered to try and find out how the Scots, Irish (north or south) or Welsh feel and think about the political construction called the United Kingdom.

Whatever Sturgeon thinks or does it's not clear to me that she could bring about independence legally without the approval of the UK government (subject to the UK Supreme Court) and UK Parliament otherwise a referendum is simply an opinion poll. Nor is it clear how Scotland could be economically independent of the UK (as distinct from politically so) without a significant fall in living standards.

Another of Scotland has changed their minds since the last one. I know a few one voted to leave UK and now says stay and another the otherway round. It makes no difference to me as long as England doesnt have to give them any money ever again except for goods. As the North Sea gas and oil is running out good luck to them with the EU being in charge of their finances.

Hysterical the other day! DH watching M.Trout on TV and announces: " she breathes through her a**e!" As she NEVER drew breathe for over 7minutes!! ???

From my experience, Scotland isn't racist unless you are English.

Buttercup yours so right! Scotland would not qualify to have Euro. Its finances would also present a huge obstacle to qualifying too unless they cheat as the Greeks? She's a very unfunny joke with her spikey Leboutins (higher the heel-lower the class) and crusty makeup with vampire slits of lips à là Thatcher! She like a scrawny pantomime dame and her appearances seem to feature herself above all else, even what she's supposed to be talking about! Self driven meglamaniac! Poor Scots need to oust her asap before she destroys them completely, a union that's lasted all that history has chucked at it should not be destroyed by a poison kiss from this vampira

My simple reason for supporting Scottish independence (I'm English and have lived here for 50 years) is that I want a better country. I want to see well funded public services (and if that means raising taxes, so be it), no nuclear weapons and a productive relationship with Europe. To be clear too, many of us who support independence are not SNP voters....and the SNP would do well to publicly acknowledge this large group and encourage it.

paddyann54

She was voted in on a mandate for Independence just last May ...so why is it a dead duck? The number of voters who want Independence is rising all the time .If you dont live here you wont know how the land lies.If the past two years (+ Brexit) have shown us anything then its that we are not just second class citizens where Westminster is concerned we dont exist!!
Our elected representatives at WM are treated with disdain an disrespect why would we continue to send them to a parliament where we haven't a cats chance in hell of getting anything done .
INDEPENDENCE IS NORMAL .If there was no need or call for it then why have Scottish voters returned the SNP to power time after time ? Its not some tactic to tell the tories we dont want them...we've more than proven that by not voting them into power since 1955 ..yes that IS NINETEEN FIFTY FIVE .As for labour they are a lost cause with their only MP predicted to lose his seat next time round .
Please understand we dont hate English people ,but we will be happier and better off with them as good neighbours and not bad masters ..which is what they've been for most of 314 years .

Completely agree with all your sentiments paddyann54. It's time. Westminster is not relevant to Scotland and the Scottish people have only recently had this come into their consciousness. It's taken a loooooong time but I feel it's happening. Most people I know (I live in Scotland) are ready for change - we want to run our own country without the restraints of Westminster's involvement. We have the resources.

THIS, ABOVE! READ! Very well explained. Thank you.

Well those who say “better together” weren’t saying that when it came to Brexit when we were told it would be marvellous - lower prices and wonderful trade and no immigrants - look how thats turning out, I love Scotland and think it’s good on them to determine their own future. I’ll be tempted to move there if they go independent of the corrupt archaic English government.

Agree with this absolutely.

Always love these discussions about nationality.

Are you the nationality of where you were born?

If true, then Cliff Richard, Felicity Kendall, Spike Milligan, Googie Withers and Joanna Lumley are Indian.

So I'm guessing they wouldn't be allowed to vote in elections in the UK unless they applied for citizenship?

Mummer

Buttercup yours so right! Scotland would not qualify to have Euro. Its finances would also present a huge obstacle to qualifying too unless they cheat as the Greeks? She's a very unfunny joke with her spikey Leboutins (higher the heel-lower the class) and crusty makeup with vampire slits of lips à là Thatcher! She like a scrawny pantomime dame and her appearances seem to feature herself above all else, even what she's supposed to be talking about! Self driven meglamaniac! Poor Scots need to oust her asap before she destroys them completely, a union that's lasted all that history has chucked at it should not be destroyed by a poison kiss from this vampira

That is a terrible post. All those vicious comments about her physical appearance.
If it weren’t the middle of the day I’d think you’d been drinking.

Grantanow

Whatever Sturgeon thinks or does it's not clear to me that she could bring about independence legally without the approval of the UK government (subject to the UK Supreme Court) and UK Parliament otherwise a referendum is simply an opinion poll. Nor is it clear how Scotland could be economically independent of the UK (as distinct from politically so) without a significant fall in living standards.

So as I understand what you are saying here is that Scotland is a subservient state to the UK, run from London, England?

How many Scottish judges sit on the UK Supreme Court bench - there would have to be some for it to legally claim it was a court for the whole of the UK surely?

Mummer

Buttercup yours so right! Scotland would not qualify to have Euro. Its finances would also present a huge obstacle to qualifying too unless they cheat as the Greeks? She's a very unfunny joke with her spikey Leboutins (higher the heel-lower the class) and crusty makeup with vampire slits of lips à là Thatcher! She like a scrawny pantomime dame and her appearances seem to feature herself above all else, even what she's supposed to be talking about! Self driven meglamaniac! Poor Scots need to oust her asap before she destroys them completely, a union that's lasted all that history has chucked at it should not be destroyed by a poison kiss from this vampira

What an awful thing to say - words fail me!!