Holocaust Memorial Day

Josieann - when I visited Auschwitz/Birkenau, although you cannot fail to be moved by the entire experience, one of the things which really seemed to bring it home to the school pupils I accompanied was towards the end of our visit, and it was the display of family photos which were found in the possessions of those who died there. The young people all remarked how it helped to see them - not in the familiar camp photos as prisoners with striped pyjamas and shaven heads - but as 'ordinary' people in family snapshots. It was food for thought indeed.

Stories of these camps did filter out of Germany both before and during the war, and Germany's treatment of Jews and other 'undesirables '. The stories were so horrific that people tended to think they were highly exaggerated and couldn't possibly be true. After all Germany and its people was a sophisticated, modern European nation, our own dear RF were, at that point, mostly of German extraction , How could these reports of such appalling behaviour possibly be true? mass murder, gas chambers, little children, old grannies, the helpless, not possible, not from Germany. Of course when the awful truth was confirmed, I think it was a terrible shock which reverberates to this day. My father was killed in this war, but my mother believed very strongly in peace and reconciliation to the effect that we had a German girl to stay with us in 1957, our two families becoming very friendly over the years, and obviously the war was a topic of conversation. Her father had been allocated as part of a firing squad to shoot Jews. He refused and as a punishment was sent to the russian front. He had an appalling time which severely compromised his health, he was lucky to survive. A lovely man, lovely family. Not all Germans were wicked.

Of course all Germans weren’t wicked. It’s governments and those in power that are wicked. I’ve seen posters on here criticise Jews because of the actions of the Israeli government and their policies on Palestine. One even commented that ‘they’ vote them in so they’re responsible. There’s prejudice and bias in all cultures, all walks of life, educated or not. In the case of anti semitism many so called educated, enlightened people think it’s justified.

One even commented that ‘they’ vote them in so they’re responsible.

I'm sorry, tickingbird, but what makes you think that voting in a government means that you don't have any responsibility for what it does when in power? Don't parties state what they intend to do before people vote?

But isn't it dangerous if no-one can criticise the Israeli government without being assumed to be anti semitic? I do not associate individual Jewish people or Judaism as a whole with the Israeli government. If I criticise Israeli policy, I am in no way criticising Jews. (Any more than I'm criticising Buddhists when I deplore the genocide in Myanmar). But I believe there are theoretical paradigms that say that to criticise Israel is anti semitic per se?

Maizie. By your reasoning then an awful lot of people in this country are responsible for the Iraq war and the horrors visited on the poor people of that region that were butchered, raped and sold as slaves by ISIS.

No Vivaldi there are no theoretical paradigms that say criticising the actions of the Israeli government in anti Semitic

tickingbird

Of course all Germans weren’t wicked. It’s governments and those in power that are wicked. I’ve seen posters on here criticise Jews because of the actions of the Israeli government and their policies on Palestine. One even commented that ‘they’ vote them in so they’re responsible. There’s prejudice and bias in all cultures, all walks of life, educated or not. In the case of anti semitism many so called educated, enlightened people think it’s justified.

Whoever Israeli people vote for, there is no doubt in my mind that Israel needs to exist. If it had existed before WW2 it would have been difficult for the Holocaust to happen. We shouldn’t forget that thousands of people tried desperately to get out of many of the countries of Europe, in particular Germany and Austria. Other countries often only admitted a few Jewish people per year, thus unwittingly sentencing many to death.
I have visited Auschwitz and Dachau. They are sobering places, and really show how evil humanity can be.
I watched the BBC documentary last night. The portraits were wonderful.

My Jewish friend told me she would never visit Germany. Her father was in a concentration camp, her mother ran away from Ukraine into Russia and survived that way. My friend was born in Ukraine and lived there until she 15 and then they escaped.

Maddyone, yes. I struggle with the use of Zionist as a term of abuse. So far as I can understand, At its simplest it means the right of the Jewish people to a homeland. That doesn’t mean supporting the actions of the Israeli govt or some extremist American settlers.
My Jewish friends who arrived at the turn of the 20th century, or on the kinder transport lost all their extended families who remained in Europe in the camps.

tickingbird

Maizie. By your reasoning then an awful lot of people in this country are responsible for the Iraq war and the horrors visited on the poor people of that region that were butchered, raped and sold as slaves by ISIS.

I don't think so, tickingbird. The Iraq war was not in prospect when the Labour government was voted in. The Israeli treatment of the Palestinians has been going on for decades. There's a difference between voting for a government knowing what their stance will be on an issue and voting for one that responds, rightly or wrongly, to an unforeseen event.

I just watched the holocaust portrait programme n bbc2. I player. One of the best programmes I have seen in a long time, the stories were so moving and the portraits absolutely stunning.