Anyone think that Putin's war will spread across Europe and beyond?

I don't know the source of the quote, but I fear that it is true " the rich and the powerful order wars, but it is the poor and the powerless who pay the price "
Imagine my dismay on learning that my daughter and her family, in Norway, have been administered iodine tablets to take in the event of high radiation levels....

The danger of the war spreading into Europe has been clear from the start of the problems with Russia over Ukraine back in 2014, when Putin occupied Crimea. Since then Western countries have been doing everything they can to avoid it .

Successful negiotiations are dependent on both sides being prepared to negotiate. Does anyone think Putin is willing to negotiate?

Putin was hoping NATO would close the air space over Ukraine and monitor it with aircraft from their air forces. Either a Russian aircraft would be shot down, or Putin would say one had, with photos etc to prove it. He would then declare outright war on NATO. He would use nuclear war heads and Britain would be one of the main targets, together with Germany, France and the USA. Do not forget how close North America is to Siberia.

I think as that is not working, his next ploy will be to use battle field nuclear arms or thermobarric artillery in Ukraine. He has already used cluster bombs. All these contravene the Geneva Convention and other rules of war and an official enquiry into his war crimes has already started.

In Russian terms, Putin is an old man. Average life expectancy of a male baby born in Russia today is 68 years. Putin is 69. Healthy life expectancy is 58

Putin is obsessed by his place in history. So far it is as the leader of a declining country; economically stagnant, less and less important in world affairs and completely over taken by China.

He knows the time he has left him to make a mark in history, is limited. His focus now is now on rebuilding Russia as it was in its heighday, when the Ukraine was in integral part of 'Mother Russia'. He is a rat caught in a trap, he has nothing to lose, and knows no moral limits to what he can do to get his own way.

So, Bea65Putins war will spread to Europe and beyond. The only people who can stop it are the people around him.

I suspect he knows that his time is almost up, and he would rather be remembered for the damage he caused than forgotten about. He has nothing to lose.

Either that or he has been misusing steroids and is in a chronically excited state and can't control his paranoia and aggression. Either way, logic and pleas to his humanity won't alter his intentions.

Crossed posts, Monica

Good to know that I have reached the same opinions as others.

I doubt that Putin will go for Poland as its a member of NATO. However as it stands the world is in a very precarious position. I think that Ukraine is going to be very difficult for the Russians to hold, which I imagine will make things even more dangerous as its obvious they Russians will stop at nothing. As for resolve, who would want to start WW3? But I do really wish we had a more mature government in No.10.

He knows the time he has left him to make a mark in history, is limited. His focus now is now on rebuilding Russia as it was in its heighday, when the Ukraine was in integral part of 'Mother Russia'. He is a rat caught in a trap, he has nothing to lose, and knows no moral limits to what he can do to get his own way.

I agree and said something similar the other day but you have said it so much more eloquently, M0nica

Finns are worried because they have an 800+ mile border with Russia and were, of course, part of the Russian Empire, a 'Grand Duchy' which Russia captured from Sweden.

Finland is part of the EU but not a member of NATO.

I have been wondering if he is ill and taking prescribed steroids as his face, especially, is markedly bloated. If so and he is possibly terminally ill, this could be his grand gesture to feed his large ego to go down in history known for reuniting Mother Russia.

Being so self obsessed, it won’t have occurred to him that the truth will out condemn his actions.

I agree Daisymae, I don’t think he thinks he can win back Poland. Where I differ from some others is that I think he has a serious weakness due to a lack of support within Russia itself, and in the countries he wants to conquer. Young people aren’t as likely to give up their freedoms for ‘the cause’ because they are better educated, better travelled and much more aware of the big picture than they were 80 years ago. He will go, literally all guns blazing for a few months, but economic necessity will bite, and I don’t think his own population will put up with it.

He won't go down in history if there is nobody left to remember him, so if historical recognition is his endgame, he is unlikely to go nuclear.

I hope.

I don’t think it will be Poland as that was never part of USSR but I’d be very worried if I lived in Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania.

Doodledog Nuclear war does not mean total destruction. Putin is gambling that if he goes nuclear, other countries will capitulate rather than return in kind.

However, I am wondering how far those around him share his aims and the extremes he is prepared to go to, and whether when his hand begins to stretch towards the red button, a big burly Russian General, will stretch his large hand out and stop him doing it., before leading him away to have a nice lie down in a room with a strong door and external lock.

What no one else seems to have thought about is China's reaction to what is happening in Russia. The two countries signed some co-operation agreement a few weeks ago, but it is noticeable, that China has abstained from voting on the subject at the UN rather than supporting Russia, which it normally does. I suspect than when push comes to shove China would be quite happy to see Russia collapse into chaos and 'help' it recover.

Casdon

I agree Daisymae, I don’t think he thinks he can win back Poland. Where I differ from some others is that I think he has a serious weakness due to a lack of support within Russia itself, and in the countries he wants to conquer. Young people aren’t as likely to give up their freedoms for ‘the cause’ because they are better educated, better travelled and much more aware of the big picture than they were 80 years ago. He will go, literally all guns blazing for a few months, but economic necessity will bite, and I don’t think his own population will put up with it.

That could take some time, though and they are starved of information.
He will go, literally all guns blazing for a few months
Before then we hope!

Getting to him could be difficult.

I agree Callistemon, getting to him will be difficult, but there will be dissenters within Russia who know where he is. Information dissemination is impossible to stop unless he literally cuts off all access to the internet, there are so many routes of communication now, so he won’t be able to control what the population know just by blocking social media. I hope this war is quick, but I’m not confident it will be.

I was reading about an exchange between mother (in Moscow) and desperate Russian daughter, Oleksandra, in Ukraine.
The daughter was distraught as shelling was all around her but the mother was unmoved because she believed Putin was liberating the Ukrainians, would not kill civilians and her daughter was wrong.

Just unbelievable brainwashing.

Yes I've read similar ..such a desperate situation for the daughter and naturally her mother ?

I was touched beyond measure seeing a photo of a young, distraught Russian soldier with some older Ukranian women; they had their arms around him, they had a mobile and they were allowing him to ring his Mother. That was the most gentle and forgiving gesture that I have ever seen, Mother to Mother, they understood how his Mother must feel and how desperate she would be to know he was safe.

Zaseret

I don’t think it will be Poland as that was never part of USSR but I’d be very worried if I lived in Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania.

Russia acquired part of Poland when it was partitioned in the C18th. There were 3 partitions conducted by the Hapsburgs (Austria) Prussia (Frederick the Great involved in the first partition) and Russia under Catherine the Great. The C19th was a very turbulent time for Poland which did not regain its independence until after WW1.

After WW2 a large part of Polish territory was ceded to the Soviet Union and today forms part of Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine.

When Trump was in power and threatening China, to the extent that he said he would press the nuclear button, American army chiefs apparently established a "back door" to their Chinese counterparts saying that they would not let it happen. Perhaps a similar "back door" will be established between the Western allies and Russia's military chiefs. I can't believe that they are stupid enough to be completely brainwashed by Putin.

Years ago we went to China just after they opened their country to foreigners. I was really surprised to see the huge Russian influence there in buildings and just in general. Putin is probably looking to that past ‘ glory ’ in forging a Sino Russian alliance. I think ,in his mind, he is the architect of a return to Past Glories of Mother Russia. Completely bonkers but very,very dangerous. Finland will be in danger,especially. He is very good at organising poisons, perhaps that is the way to go with him?

I really do wonder if our own secret service has been asleep. How come no one seemed to know exactly what was being planned. I hope for all our sakes President Putin is not mentally ill. It is very difficult to ascertain what will happen, given that no one really knows what he wants. Sadly, I think this situation will go on for years.

nanna8. You are absolutely right, Putin is driven by his desire to rebuild a Greater Russia, both occupying previous territories that have slipped Russian power and allying himself with the power that has replaced the USSR - China.

Pepper59I do not think that it is the secret service who were unaware of what was happening, more that the general public were unaware

The main news streams run very little news that isn't trivia and reduced to bullet points that can be read on a smart phone. What used to be the broadsheet newspapers, weekly news magazines and online sources that run extended articles have been discussing Putin's increasing paranoia as countries that used to be in Russia's sphere of influence have drifted westwards and joined the EU and NATO for a long time.

The only two bordering European countries under Russian influence are Ukraine and Belorus. This is why he sent troops into Belorus to support the pro-Russian dictator when there was an uprising against him last year, and why on his eastern border he did the same for Kazakhstan in January this year..

Ukraine is the last and largest country on his Eurpoean border and if that joins the EU and NATO. He has both organisations abutting Russia's border from Finland to the Black Sea.

The Ukraine has been in the public gaze since at least 2010 and Putin used unrest in Ukraine as an excuse to invade and occupy the Crimean penninsula in 2014. The Secret Service will have the information and feed it to government. What government then does, or doesn't, do with it is another question.

Just a thought but could it just be in their Grand Plan
Russia and Putin rule Europe
China and Xi Jinping rule Asia
Not sure about Africa - probably more Xi Jinping. Wouldn’t want to be alive under those regimes.

I wouldn’t want to be a native of/resident in any of the other former Soviet states, that’s for sure.
Unless someone has the guts to take him out, it’s increasingly looking like Hitler all over again.

pmg, anyone else watching the russian exile on tv? We seem to be doomed, us and all of europe