Boris and the Ukraine.

HolySox

The conflict has put things in perspective. In the UK we are free, well the press is free, to campaign against the government because they may have had a glass of wine in lockdown ... compared to a country that has a 'strong leader'. Putin has sent his country into war for his own personal ideals but will lock up any citizen for 15 years for saying so! Partygate might have given government opponents opportunity to challenge the integrity of Boris and his party ... but I am left thinking Partygate is so trivial in light of what we could have!
Boris held the helm and steered us through COVID and so far I am happy with his leadership in the current crisis. Still praying for a swift resolution in Ukraine.

Do you have a "line of acceptability" HolySox? One that separates genocidal maniacs from inveterate liars who are unfit to lead?

Because just because one country is led my an autocrat, that doesn't mean that we should just roll over and say, well at least Boris hasn't invaded anywhere. He's not so bad, is he?

No sorry volver it’s Sunday and we’re about to go out for a tapas lunch over here. It would take too long. I read articles from the Telegraph (natch, I subscribe to digital), the DM, quick peek in The Times, the NYT and the Irish Journal. My overall impression is that we can be proud of the UK’s assistance. We sent useful combat stuff when the Germans sent helmets. We trained Ukrainian personnel while the Italians worried about their Gucci handbag sales.

Look, it isn’t a competition. I was just stating how sluggish some countries were at the start. Every effort helps, of course it does and the EU have since deliberated and played catch up. But Boris bashing is a popular sport on here and credit where it’s due, I don’t think it’s justified now regarding Ukraine is all.

Urmstongran I don't think its appropriate at times like these to slate our own government, or say anything to diminish their attempts to make things better. So I'm generally keeping quiet.

But spreading untruths such as "the Germans only sent helmets" is falling for the propaganda spread by such ridiculous, self serving outlets as the Telegraph and the Mail. When you say some countries were "sluggish" at the start, we're only 10 days in. This is the start.

HolySox Given that you value our freedoms so much I would be very interested to hear your opinion on the governments plan to introduce laws enabling protesters to be sent to jail merely for protesting?

The parties weren't merely 'drinking wine' they were a clear sign of a government that didn't/couldn't/wouldn't follow the rules of our society - rules it had put in place just days before.

Partygate should fade into the background given the horror unfolding in Ukraine, but when we are able we should immediately return to rooting out the the corruption, lies and lack of integrity at the heart of our government.

Fair comment volver. You are an exacting taskperson keeping me on my toes.
I will tune into this thread later to gain other opinions.
I do hope you ask other posters ‘for links please’ too. Not just letting their opinions fly.
In the spirit of fairness.
?

I’m off to get ready. We’re an hour ahead and popular tapas bars are buzzing with the locals before 1pm on the weekend!

The pages of the Telegraph and Daily Mail today were a crib sheet for people who refer to any critical analysis of our leader's performance as Boris Bashing.

But hey, Germany only sent helmets. There always has to be some 'other' to blame.

Morning volver. As I've said before, all politicians are liars so difficult to draw a 'line of acceptability'. Rather than debate Partygate, the point I was really making is how free we and the press are in the UK compared to how it could be. We can criticise our government without fear of the police turning up.

Off out now but leave you with this thought - our government has 'courted' Russian Oligarchs and Russian money - do wonder if there has always been a strategic tool to influence Russia. For instance, we can impose economic sanctions that will have an impact on Russia - this wasn't possible in the old days of the USSR. Of course that would vindicate Boris and the Tories relationship with Russians...

Urmstongran

Fair comment volver. You are an exacting taskperson keeping me on my toes.
I will tune into this thread later to gain other opinions.
I do hope you ask other posters ‘for links please’ too. Not just letting their opinions fly.
In the spirit of fairness.
?

I’m off to get ready. We’re an hour ahead and popular tapas bars are buzzing with the locals before 1pm on the weekend!

Opinions are fine.

Making statements of opinion and spreading untruths as though they were fact, is not.

Enjoy your patatas bravas

How can anyone call the EU response to the war in Ukraine sluggish? Within a week huge sanctions were imposed on a scale none of us have ever seen.

It makes me so sad, that when there is war and horror unfolding in front of our eyes, some would still seek division and to castigate 'the other' so as to make their own world view the right one.

Do we not need a break from this kind of hatred?

HolySox

Morning volver. As I've said before, all politicians are liars so difficult to draw a 'line of acceptability'. Rather than debate Partygate, the point I was really making is how free we and the press are in the UK compared to how it could be. We can criticise our government without fear of the police turning up.

Off out now but leave you with this thought - our government has 'courted' Russian Oligarchs and Russian money - do wonder if there has always been a strategic tool to influence Russia. For instance, we can impose economic sanctions that will have an impact on Russia - this wasn't possible in the old days of the USSR. Of course that would vindicate Boris and the Tories relationship with Russians...

I had to read that twice HolySox, my fault, not yours.

I certainly agree that we are privileged to live in a state where criticising the government does not lead to long term imprisonment (yet).

But when I got to the bit about how the government are leading the Russians up the garden path by accepting all those roubles, its all for the good of the UK.... I am actually speechless. Well done, it doesn't happen often.

Urmstongran

I respectfully beg to differ regarding the UK’s input. I have checked sources across several newspapers (some of which I do t usually read) and I’m proud and impressed by our massive involvement in so many ways.
?? ▶️ ??

I'm not sure who or what you disagree with Urmstongran. We have done quite a lot and have a right a) to be proud of that and b) to keep pushing our great leader for more.

Are we a "massive" power? No. Are we showing leadership - no, why would we be. We have a leader who follows the path of the news and trends in his government. He does not create leadership.

Perhaps, when you have time, you could explain what you mean.

08:11Urmstongran
I think we will have to wait and see but I think he will bounce back as we move out of the pandemic. Much of the Western world will be knocked sideways by inflation due to various factors at play so any Brexit downsides (maybe less than some fear?) as such will be difficult to extrapolate. In the short term he’s lucky to have Ben Wallace (ex Scots Army) as his wingman as Minister for Defence - he could still have been listening to the hapless Gavin Williamson.
?

Yes Boris is lucky to have Ben Wallace with all his experience, the SNP have this wally ?

Next thing you know they'll be putting a comedian in charge.

Oh bugger volver you beat me to it.

Galaxy

Oh bugger volver you beat me to it.

There was quite an interesting piece by a comedian the other day, I think it was David Baddiel but I cant remember, he was pointing out the skills that a good stand up needs, courage, intelligence, empathy and so on. Fairly useful transferable skills.

Thank you for all your thoughtful responses.
I suppose the point is that we’re not at war, which is what Maggie was faced with. Add to that the Russian influence on British politics which is yet to be fully uncovered - so Boris is in an entirely different situation.

volver

HolySox

Morning volver. As I've said before, all politicians are liars so difficult to draw a 'line of acceptability'. Rather than debate Partygate, the point I was really making is how free we and the press are in the UK compared to how it could be. We can criticise our government without fear of the police turning up.

Off out now but leave you with this thought - our government has 'courted' Russian Oligarchs and Russian money - do wonder if there has always been a strategic tool to influence Russia. For instance, we can impose economic sanctions that will have an impact on Russia - this wasn't possible in the old days of the USSR. Of course that would vindicate Boris and the Tories relationship with Russians...

I had to read that twice HolySox, my fault, not yours.

I certainly agree that we are privileged to live in a state where criticising the government does not lead to long term imprisonment (yet).

But when I got to the bit about how the government are leading the Russians up the garden path by accepting all those roubles, its all for the good of the UK.... I am actually speechless. Well done, it doesn't happen often.

You have said exactly what I was thinking, Volver, but worded it so much better than I would have.

(By the way, I am guessing from your moniker that you are back here under a new name, and your writing style does seem familiar, but (assuming I am right, that is), I still haven't managed to put my finger on your previous identity.)

HolySox

The conflict has put things in perspective. In the UK we are free, well the press is free, to campaign against the government because they may have had a glass of wine in lockdown ... compared to a country that has a 'strong leader'. Putin has sent his country into war for his own personal ideals but will lock up any citizen for 15 years for saying so! Partygate might have given government opponents opportunity to challenge the integrity of Boris and his party ... but I am left thinking Partygate is so trivial in light of what we could have!
Boris held the helm and steered us through COVID and so far I am happy with his leadership in the current crisis. Still praying for a swift resolution in Ukraine.

Holysox glad you think that it is good for a country to have a free press and the right to demonstrate against government policies.
Such a pity that the current administration in UK is so intent on taking away that second right as quickly as they push the revised legislation through parliament.
And, as for a free press - mainly owned by a very few billionnaires who use it to push their own interests on the the British public.

Like other countries, so meany people in UK are taken in by the government propagander machine

None of us will be worrying about BJ if Putin follows through his thinly veiled threat to wage war against the UK because we sent military arms to Ukraine. Let’s hope to God that doesn’t happen. I’m extremely worried about Putin.

Coastpath

HolySox Given that you value our freedoms so much I would be very interested to hear your opinion on the governments plan to introduce laws enabling protesters to be sent to jail merely for protesting?

The parties weren't merely 'drinking wine' they were a clear sign of a government that didn't/couldn't/wouldn't follow the rules of our society - rules it had put in place just days before.

Partygate should fade into the background given the horror unfolding in Ukraine, but when we are able we should immediately return to rooting out the the corruption, lies and lack of integrity at the heart of our government.

I agree. I’m ashamed of the corruption and greed at the heart of government and all those Tories who fail to take any action against this.

Boris held the helm and steered us through COVID

Aaaaaaargh !

Could a link be provided by the poster who claimed GB News is being funded by Russia/Russians?
My little bit of research suggests it is funded by America, Dubai, and the UK, meaning people/companies from those places provided the 60 million funding needed. If others have evidence to show otherwise I’m happy to be corrected.

There was quite an interesting piece by a comedian the other day, I think it was David Baddiel

Referring to DB as a comedian is comedic. I think it’s generally accepted he’s a failed (badly) comedian.

maddyone

Could a link be provided by the poster who claimed GB News is being funded by Russia/Russians?
My little bit of research suggests it is funded by America, Dubai, and the UK, meaning people/companies from those places provided the 60 million funding needed. If others have evidence to show otherwise I’m happy to be corrected.

Take your pick.

tribunemag.co.uk/2021/06/behind-gb-news

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/christopher-chandler-spy-money-man-for-putin-and-trump-no-im-just-a-shy-billionaire-2h58mbmqh

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5695573/Legatum-founder-suspected-spy.html