Gender? Sex? Help me out please.

Well I'm going to take another question off the list: Does anyone abuse self-id policies?

Yes, I believe they do. A good example of this is John Goodier, a many times convicted paedophile who decided that sexual depravity with children wasn't enough and so included his pet Alsation dog. It was only when faced with a lengthy jail sentence that he decided that, actually, he was a woman. Called Claire. And he wanted to be referred to andaddressed as a female and that any prison term be served in a women's jail. Now I believe that, apart from being a piss taker, he's also doing the trans movement a great deal of harm.

Is any body else amused/perplexed that people stroll by a thread, poke their head around the door and shout "You're all boring in here! It's like grounding day!" and then trot off!!! Why would you feel the need to do that? Why not just scroll on and find something else that piques your interest? Nowt as funny as folk!

How is it fair for someone like Lia Thomas to demolish women’s swimming records?

Well the answer to that is it isn’t fair.
He took drugs-if women had taken drugs they would have been banned.
He had gone through puberty. Science shows that that has lasting effects.
He failed as a swimmer against other males.
Having read that Thomas scored all Penn’s NCAA points it’s even less fair and the college should be ashamed of itself, (probably too much to expect Thomas to be ashamed of himself.)
I feel for his parents-but I have no idea whether they support his cheating.

Any postsers care to post how it is fair and justify it.

Sorry, I used one of your points Chewbacca and forgot to acknowledge it. Please don’t accuse me of plagiarism.

Another good post Doodledog

Goodness, this is such garbage. I can't be bothered to read any of it.

I would concur with your summary of the unfairness of males competing in womens sports MollyGo and read an excellent report on that that FarNorth provided on "the other thread". The only good thing about this debacle is that it's actually opened up dialogue as to how to proceed in the future. Everyone has been tip toeing around the elephant in the room, trying to pretend that it really wasn't there. But now that the elephant has left a rather significant pile of to be cleared up, it's got people willing to discuss how this could be handled in the future so that everyone, particularly women athletes, get to play on a level playing field.

Chewbacca

Is any body else amused/perplexed that people stroll by a thread, poke their head around the door and shout "You're all boring in here! It's like grounding day!" and then trot off!!! Why would you feel the need to do that? Why not just scroll on and find something else that piques your interest? Nowt as funny as folk!

And now you can add Goodness, this is such garbage. I can't be bothered to read any of it. Some power that, to know something is garbage without even having to read it, or maybe it just demonstrates stupidity?

Rosie51

Skydancer

Goodness, this is such garbage. I can't be bothered to read any of it.

That’s nice. ?

Not twisting anything Doodledog.

I've heard it all before, from the same people. I know your POV. You know mine. We're not able to persuade each other to a consensus. No point rehashing it.

GagaJo

Not twisting anything Doodledog.

I've heard it all before, from the same people. I know your POV. You know mine. We're not able to persuade each other to a consensus. No point rehashing it.

That’s nice!

Ooh, a quiz ?

Why are the new euphemisms for 'female'—’bleeder,’ ‘uterus-haver,’ ‘menstruator’—so degrading to women?
Because the TRA movement is led by misogynists?

Why are trans demands so lopsided, with much demanded of women and very little demanded of men?
See above.

Why do ideologically-noncompliant women take so much more heat from trans activists than violent men?
Again, the reasons are rooted in misogyny and a fear of women. As women have gained rights and shown that they are capable of as much as men, those who believe in male superiority have found themselves on shaky ground, so are finding new ways to undermine women. Also, those who believe in gender can't get their conformist heads around the fact that women are supposed to be compliant, and men are supposed to be dominant, but some just aren't. (I didn't say these were sensible reasons - you didn't specify that they had to be, did you?)

Why are we deferring to the gender identity claims of male rapists and serial killers?
Probably a misunderstanding of the situation, in a similar way to how many people fell for the 'no reference to black bin bags or black coffee' nonsense back in the day.

Why are women’s movements being co-opted?
See above - and also jealousy of the way in which female socialisation tends to encourage co-operative behaviour, so we have been more inclined to 'be kind' and made ourselves easy targets. More fool us, but we live and learn.

Does anyone abuse self-id policies?
Are you kidding? Yes - see Chewbacca's post. Oh, but if a female author uses a plot even remotely like the true story in that report she is castigated fro transphobia.

What’s the difference between a ‘transwoman’ and a man who says he’s a woman?
Is that a riddle? Seriously - It's not for me to say, really.

How is it fair for someone like Lia Thomas to demolish women’s swimming records?
This one's easy. It Is Not Fair.

What's the difference between Rachel Dolezal and Caitlyn Jenner?
Erm, were they both mis-assigned at birth in their different ways? Can I have half a point for that, at least? Caitlin Jenner seems to have at least some sensible views on trans issues, though.

What was wrong with what JK Rowling said?
It was read by lots of people, and made them think about the issues surrounding gender issues? It really annoys TRAs when they are asked to explain why she is so evil? Women shouldn't have the financial power to sue men when they defame or otherwise abuse them, as that upsets the natural order of things?

GagaJo

Not twisting anything Doodledog.

I've heard it all before, from the same people. I know your POV. You know mine. We're not able to persuade each other to a consensus. No point rehashing it.

Splendid. Glad you popped in to let us know.

Whilst you're here, though, GagaJo, would you please let us know what you understand by the words 'woman' and 'man'? You've always been too busy to do so one other threads, and I'm sure people would be interested to hear your answers.

Howling with laughter at 20.35 post! Thanks Doodledog!

No, Doodledog. Not if you (and others) can't manage to be polite. If you want to have rational discussion, try not being mocking, arrogant or intimidating others out of the discussion.

Plus, as I said above, I know your POV. You know mine. We're not able to persuade each other to a consensus. No point rehashing it.

Let's face it. All these long diatribes and attacks on GN members who don't drink the gender critical Kool-Aid are a deliberate attempt to shut down discussion.

I didn't honestly expect a definition, as I don't think you have one. You can dissemble as much as you like, but the bottom line is that you defend the right of people to identify as something you can't even define. It just makes no sense.

I'm not shutting down debate - your refusing to even say what it is you are defending the right to become is doing that.

It's your choice to see it that way.

We are the wrong sort of women Gagajo

GagaJo

It's your choice to see it that way.

Well it is, obviously, but there's no point in complaining that we can't reach consensus and then continuing to refuse to answer any questions that might clear up your point of view.

We have no choice but to see it that way GagaJo as you won't answer.

What sort of women are you VioletSky?
What other sorts are there?
Have you explained what is a man and a woman, for those of us who are having difficulty?

VioletSky

We are the wrong sort of women Gagajo

Not to mention the wrong sort of feminists!

Gagajo I have understood for a long time that I have privelege.

I've never imagined having so much privilege that I could ever possibly look at another human being and say whatever I want about them because I have decided they have made a choice about something I don't even understand.

People did it with gay people and now they are doing it with trans people.

Because people have decided that being trans is a mental illness they choose not to recover from, people feel they can go online and say whatever they like.

If saying whatever they like leads to any harm against trans people, it's clear to see the mental gymnastics going on to shed that guilt.

All the while, trans hate crimes have quadrupled. Gone up 25% in the last year alone. People are frightened to leave the house. Reddit and other forums are full of young people asking if they "pass" as the gender they are because they want to know if they are safe to be out in public without people displaying prejudice.

It's just a repetition of the age old nonsense that the older generation knows what's best for the younger

How can you possibly know what's best for someone else when you are so determined to tell them who they are you didn't let the show you the truth.

It's deeply saddening

GagaJo And anybody else who ever uses the phrase. Do you know that a lot of people think referring to “Kool-Aid” is highly offensive to relatives of the dead and survivors of the Jonestown suicides. It’s a phrase that imo, has unfortunately become popular with both sides of the GC argument.