Gender? Sex? Help me out please.

Obviously that was to trisher, not Galaxy.

Sigh.

Doodledog
FFS, I am acknowledging that we just don't know, but you are still picking at everything I say
Yes DoodleDog.
Nobody knows all the figures, not even xxxxxxx, et al, but at least you acknowledge that and don’t make things up to support what you say.
Galaxy, indeed they haven’t been collecting data properly, as we have been learning more about in recent days.

Trisher says: You have no idea how many children have questioned their gender and passed safely though a period of uncertainty with or without the help of counselling. Nor how many children have satisfactorily changed their gender.

Actually, neither have you trisher so I’m not sure how you can so rudely question what someone else knows.

The whole point of my post was that we can't compare the past with the present as each child only has one experience.

I have long felt that it doesn't matter what people who don't buy into the TRA agenda post - they will be shouted down, often rudely, without the posts being read properly. If I had been in any doubt before, though, I am not now.

Saw this just now

GrannyGravy13

Saw this just now

It’s appalling, but true. Hard to believe its behaviour is endorsed by some women.

Doodledog, you can't be that lacking in awareness. If anyone (certainly not me) had the time or the inclination to go back through the posts, do you really think it's the intersectional feminist posts that do the majority of rudeness and shouting down?

Sense and honesty is creeping in!
Florida governor Ron DeSantis has signed a proclamation recognising runner-up Emma Weyant as the winner of the highest US national college swimming title - an event she lost to transgender athlete Lia Thomas

That is very good news mollygo

Now the conversations can begin on having separate trans categories, it works well in para sport ensuring nobody has an unfair advantage.

GagaJo

Doodledog, you can't be that lacking in awareness. If anyone (certainly not me) had the time or the inclination to go back through the posts, do you really think it's the intersectional feminist posts that do the majority of rudeness and shouting down?

Yes

GagaJo

Doodledog, you can't be that lacking in awareness. If anyone (certainly not me) had the time or the inclination to go back through the posts, do you really think it's the intersectional feminist posts that do the majority of rudeness and shouting down?

I guess that is what happens when you have decided that intersectional feminsim must be shut down by any means because they dont care about women... Even though an intersectional feminist cares about all women.

GrannyGravy13

GagaJo

Doodledog, you can't be that lacking in awareness. If anyone (certainly not me) had the time or the inclination to go back through the posts, do you really think it's the intersectional feminist posts that do the majority of rudeness and shouting down?

Yes

There may be more posts from the wrong kind of feminists on the trans threads. That’s because we are the larger group here. It doesn’t mean we are responsible for the majority of rudeness and shouting down.

I’m still waiting for any response to the interim but thorough Cass report from the posters who are offended, dismissive and rude to those of us they dismiss as terfs

Iam64 I just think that it’s really sad that in the 21st Century yet again there are elements who are trying to erode natal females, dismissing their concerns…

Few parents are insensitive or uncaring for their children. However it doesn't mean that everything they do out of love and care is good for the children.

There was a time when left-handed children were forced to use their right hand. Everyone parents and teachers thought this was for the children's good. We do not do that now and know that it was damaging for the children forced to use their right hands.

If no one batted an eyelid if a biological girl decided to dress and behave in a way that we associate with biological boy, changed her name etc and vice versa. If adults left them alone in the same way we leave children whose sex and gender adults are more comfortable with then they could make their own decisions when they reach 18.

GagaJo, that is classic gaslighting.

You are trying to deflect from the fact that I posted (actually in a conciliatory manner) to say that we just don’t know what would have happened had children in the past been treated in the way modern ones are treated (and vice versa) but was snapped at in a way that proved beyond doubt that trisher had not read my post, but simply reacted negatively. Rather than address that, you claim (erroneously) instead that so-called ‘intersectional feminists’ are usually victims of shouting down. The You Always ‘defence’), also taking in the classic DARVO strategy (Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender).

I try really hard to remain calm on these threads, often in the face of quite abusive behaviour - I do not shout people down. My posts are sometimes long, yes; but I’m not the soundbite type, and I try to spell out my points leaving no room for ambiguity, so that they are not twisted into things that I did not say. That is not shouting down. I ask questions to clarify posts from so-called IFs, but they are rarely answered, despite the fact that you regularly question us - often rather rudely - and get carefully worded answers.

It can seem like an echo chamber on these threads (albeit with two distinctly different echoes), and the voices are usually the same ones, but more people will read than post, and I know that other readers can see DARVO tactics for what they are, and that refusal to answer the most fundamental of questions (what do you mean when you say that transwomen ‘are women’? What is a woman?) is rude, and also indicative of a lack of reasoned argument.

The only response we get to posts that explain why we are concerned with some aspects surrounding Trans Rights Activism is that we are prejudiced, phobic etc and the only way the TRA’s arguments are ‘supported’ is with the trotting out of patronising and passive aggressive ‘be kind’ cliches, evasion or insults, depending on who responds. It’s wearisome.

Interesting read this morning.

Men self identifying as women have been told to stay and fight in Ukraine rather than join the biological women fleeing as refugees.

Apparently they aren’t happy.

Hard cheese I say.

Whitewavemark2

Interesting read this morning.

Men self identifying as women have been told to stay and fight in Ukraine rather than join the biological women fleeing as refugees.

Apparently they aren’t happy.

Hard cheese I say.

I hadn’t seen that Whitewavemark2 I wonder what the situation is with transmen or women self ID’ing as men?

Doodledog I apologise if I misread this statement Every case only goes one way, doesn't it? as meaning all children questioning their gender identity are pushed into transition. I'm pleased you realise some children simply look and dress differently to others and pass through phases just as they used to whereas other children suffer distress and pain because they have gender dysphoria..

Whitewavemark2 Did you read about the abuse the transwomen are being subjected to? How they are searched by men who fondle their breasts and make personal remarks about their bodies. Do you not realise that men who behave like that will do the same to any women? It does take a war to bring out the true opinions of people and reveal how they really feel about things doesn't it?

Any links to what you have alleged trisher , thank you

Well, I suppose: Men self identifying as women have been told to stay and fight in Ukraine rather than join the biological women fleeing as refugees. answers this question on the list: Does anyone abuse self-id policies?

Quite agree with you whitewave; hard cheese indeed.

trisher

Doodledog I apologise if I misread this statement Every case only goes one way, doesn't it? as meaning all children questioning their gender identity are pushed into transition. I'm pleased you realise some children simply look and dress differently to others and pass through phases just as they used to whereas other children suffer distress and pain because they have gender dysphoria..

Whitewavemark2 Did you read about the abuse the transwomen are being subjected to? How they are searched by men who fondle their breasts and make personal remarks about their bodies. Do you not realise that men who behave like that will do the same to any women? It does take a war to bring out the true opinions of people and reveal how they really feel about things doesn't it?

You will have to help me out here. I understood that men self identifying as women were still biologically male?

Yes they are Whitewavemark2 they have all male genitalia until they have fully transitioned.

Quite honestly I have been washing up and thinking about this.

And have come to the conclusion, that if our country was fighting for its life, every single individual without dependents should be expected to stay and fight.

Regardless of where they are on the male/female spectrum.

Medical exemptions of course.

I’m talking about healthy human beings. No if or buts.

Unfortunately Whitewavemark2 where you have natal females fighting/frontline then rape and assault by the opposition becomes part of war.