Johnson's offensive speech at the Conservative Party Spring Conference.

Urmstongran

^I am assuming you are not saying the generally more vulnerable by age never received a vaccination^

Not at all DaisyAnne but my 86y old neighbour waited a further 14 months with others- all residents, all on a health centre ‘list’ - for hers. Some wait eh? She was frantic.

I imagine many people decided to be impatient during the various periods of the first two years of Covid.

However, that's not the point. Your original comment seemed to be trying to say that the Spanish system was less efficient than ours. If my neighbour hadn't had her vaccination as someone of at the top of the list, she would have still been able to stay well and so would everyone else. By putting the "front-line" workers first surely more people are safe.

I am not pursauded that the Spanish were any less efficient by the "frantic elderly neighbour" argument. If anything you are convincing me they had more logical thinking.

Nope. Himself hasn’t been feeling too good.
We do however hope to be going out for paella at 9pm.
Fingers crossed!

We shall have to agree to disagree then DA. The fact that our elders were seen to first (as the most vulnerable according to Van Tam at the time) it put them in pole position too for timing of their boosters as autumn hit.

Urmstongran

We shall have to agree to disagree then DA. The fact that our elders were seen to first (as the most vulnerable according to Van Tam at the time) it put them in pole position too for timing of their boosters as autumn hit.

That doesn't make sense Urmstongran. Both countries could now finesse the order they used.

We left unvaccinated front line staff treating anyone and everyone. And we left the Care Homes with unvaccinated staff and no PPE. How was that going to help the elderly extremely vulnerable? Was it better to make sure they were safe? Or should we have worried about bad-tempered elderly living in safe homes?

The bit about the boosters is illogical too. If they had the first injections later they would maintain immunity until a later date too.

None of this stops Johnsons's speech being offensive.

JenniferEccles

Although I agree that the PM’s words were somewhat crass and tactless, it’s perfectly obvious that he wasn’t making a direct comparison with the terrible events in Ukraine.
Everyone, surely, could see the point he was making about freedom and sovereignty, yet the Left of course has jumped on what he said with predicable outrage.

The PM is as horrified as we all are at Putin’s actions. He has condemned the invasion on many occasions over the past few weeks so there was no need for him to spell out the differences between Brexit and the situation in Ukraine because most of us understood what he meant.

Never mind. It does appear that some people positively delight in being outraged!

Everyone, surely, could see the point he was making about freedom and sovereignty, yet the Left of course has jumped on what he said with predicable outrage.

... can I just point out, respectfully, that it is wrong to assume critics of Johnson automatically stem from the Left? As in my case.

He has critics from across the political spectrum - including those on his own wavelength.

And the "outrage" from the Left is often equally matched by outrage from the Right on various political matters. There's a variety of historical tabloid headlines that will attest to it.

Another aspect of this is that we are not necessarily talking about 'the Right' but about one man who - considering that the Right are not a homogenous group - doesn't automatically represent them.

volver

I just thought that this would be a good place to add something I was told on here the other day.

Someone said that Putin hadn't had anything to do with their Brexit decision because she hadn't seen him on her Facebook feed.

Oh, if only the world was as simple as some people think it is...

But why do you think that this is a good place for such a daft post. Just wondering…

Well it wasn't me that was being daft, was it?

And we were talking about how Russia was involved in the Brexit vote.

Oh dear. It's a sair chave...

The only similarity between the Brexit vote and the war in Ukraine is that Putin is responsible for both.

Every speech he gives us offensive as far as I am concerned, literally every time he says something it is offensive and the stupid grin he gives as if everybody should think he is funny ?

Watching Sky News this morning I saw Johnson being interviewed by two young teens, both of whom were very articulate. The subject was Ukraine. For once Johnson spoke coherently. No doubt he had advance notice of the questions and there was no fear of being disagreed with by an experienced journalist.

Expect this to be the pattern for the future.

Anyone who hasn't yet realised that Putin is behind Brexit really needs to start educating themselves and reading a bit more. Even the Torygraph is getting a bit hot under the collar about Russian money and influence. I admit they did a great job with all those charming charismatic men like Farage, all those stories in the well balanced MSM telling everyone what coves most foreigners were, all those pesky EU regulations stopping honest Brits from just getting on with their over regulated lives. Yup,I can see how some were fooled convinced. Presumably the same people who think that Johnson is a great chap, just a little bit misunderstood, especially by the lunatic left

The bit about the boosters is illogical too. If they had the first injections later they would maintain immunity until a later date too.

Yes DA of course. But the way the UK sorted it, boosters for the most vulnerable were due at the optimum time of the new variant surge. Van Tam said we had got it right.

From an article in The Sunday Times by Brian Appleyard
Sunday February 18th 2018:

“That link between low IQ and a Brexit vote is now an entrenched ideology among many, if not most, remainers. You hear it at dinner parties, you see it on television, you read it in frothing newspaper columns and you can detect it in the fear of professional or private exposure among many “leave” voters.

But, from today, Brexiteers can come out of the closet and hold their heads high .... “

If you are interested Gill57. Or maybe not.

Paranoid? Moi?

?

Now you really are beginning to worry me Ug

Urmstongran

From an article in The Sunday Times by Brian Appleyard
Sunday February 18th 2018:

“That link between low IQ and a Brexit vote is now an entrenched ideology among many, if not most, remainers. You hear it at dinner parties, you see it on television, you read it in frothing newspaper columns and you can detect it in the fear of professional or private exposure among many “leave” voters.

But, from today, Brexiteers can come out of the closet and hold their heads high .... “

If you are interested Gill57. Or maybe not.

Why? Has was it proved otherwise?

I don't think it was ever claimed that people who voted for Brexit had a low IQ, but various surveys showed fairly conclusively that they were older and had lower educational attainment?

What happened to enable them to hold their heads up high?

If you read my post Urm, I made no reference to Brexit voting and educational achievement. I am however,interested to know the basis of the pride that Appleyard talks of. Also,I will point out that this article is 4 years old, before the more obvious manifestation of Russian influence, and pre Johnson government, so what is your point exactly?

growstuff

Urmstongran

From an article in The Sunday Times by Brian Appleyard
Sunday February 18th 2018:

“That link between low IQ and a Brexit vote is now an entrenched ideology among many, if not most, remainers. You hear it at dinner parties, you see it on television, you read it in frothing newspaper columns and you can detect it in the fear of professional or private exposure among many “leave” voters.

But, from today, Brexiteers can come out of the closet and hold their heads high .... “

If you are interested Gill57. Or maybe not.

Why? Has was it proved otherwise?

I don't think it was ever claimed that people who voted for Brexit had a low IQ, but various surveys showed fairly conclusively that they were older and had lower educational attainment?

What happened to enable them to hold their heads up high?

Is it meant to be ironical? If so it's very unpleasant.

Brexit was about loosing freedoms and leaving the EU
Ukraine is fighting for freedom and joining the EU.
Where’s the similarity?

Dinahmo

Watching Sky News this morning I saw Johnson being interviewed by two young teens, both of whom were very articulate. The subject was Ukraine. For once Johnson spoke coherently. No doubt he had advance notice of the questions and there was no fear of being disagreed with by an experienced journalist.

Expect this to be the pattern for the future.

Wouldn’t that be nice!. No rude, unpleasant and I’ll mannered journalist? Maybe then we might watch and listen and not reach for the off button every time.

DaisyAnne

growstuff

Urmstongran

From an article in The Sunday Times by Brian Appleyard
Sunday February 18th 2018:

“That link between low IQ and a Brexit vote is now an entrenched ideology among many, if not most, remainers. You hear it at dinner parties, you see it on television, you read it in frothing newspaper columns and you can detect it in the fear of professional or private exposure among many “leave” voters.

But, from today, Brexiteers can come out of the closet and hold their heads high .... “

If you are interested Gill57. Or maybe not.

Why? Has was it proved otherwise?

I don't think it was ever claimed that people who voted for Brexit had a low IQ, but various surveys showed fairly conclusively that they were older and had lower educational attainment?

What happened to enable them to hold their heads up high?

Is it meant to be ironical? If so it's very unpleasant.

I finally managed to read the article, although it's behind a paywall. Mainly it's about an organisation of academics who are Leavers. There's 38 of them. The premise is that there are some clever people who voted Leave.

Well obviously there are. But most people who voted Leave and less well educated than those who voted Remain.

They should also be ashamed of the final paragraph of their report, given where we are today.

Instead of peaceful integration, writes Philip Cunliffe, a senior lecturer in international conflict at Kent University, the eastward expansion of the EU has disproved its claim to reunify the Continent and shattered its legitimacy as a peacemaker.

Nightsky2

Dinahmo

Watching Sky News this morning I saw Johnson being interviewed by two young teens, both of whom were very articulate. The subject was Ukraine. For once Johnson spoke coherently. No doubt he had advance notice of the questions and there was no fear of being disagreed with by an experienced journalist.

Expect this to be the pattern for the future.

Wouldn’t that be nice!. No rude, unpleasant and I’ll mannered journalist? Maybe then we might watch and listen and not reach for the off button every time.

No, instead we'll have rude, unpleasant and ill mannered politicians with nobody to hold them to account.

Do you have anything else to say to a grateful nation, Prime Minister?

Volver

They should also be ashamed of the final paragraph of their report, given where we are today.

Instead of peaceful integration, writes Philip Cunliffe, a senior lecturer in international conflict at Kent University, the eastward expansion of the EU has disproved its claim to reunify the Continent and shattered its legitimacy as a peacemaker.

The quote was getting a little long. That makes me think they are not doing well. A bit like some of the things Putin says now he is realising he has miscalculated. Let's hope that doesn't mean the government does something worse just to keep us in our place and so they can still say "We won!"

Just in the interests of accuracy, I don't think "most people who voted Leave are less well educated than those who voted Remain." I would suggest that it was shown that a greater proportion of those who voted Leave had lower attainment levels than those who voted Remain". Subtle but different

I am still trying to work out what "dinner parties" the author of the article went to. Who goes to "dinner parties" these days and why would you want to be with people who are rude about you?

Just in the interests of accuracy, I don't think "most people who voted Leave are less well educated than those who voted Remain." I would suggest that it was shown that a greater proportion of those who voted Leave had lower attainment levels than those who voted Remain". Subtle but different.

Fair point DaisyAnne