Gransnet forums

News & politics

Johnson's offensive speech at the Conservative Party Spring Conference.

(243 Posts)
DaisyAnne Sat 19-Mar-22 19:56:43

He compared the "battles of Brexit" to those of Ukraine. If you can't believe your eyes, yes, he compared the "battles of Brexit" to those of Ukraine.

This speech was inexcusable. I saw it earlier and was horrified. Then you remember these are the tactics the New Right use - appealing to the lowest common denominator with Boris humour. This is the lowest he could sink. I can't see how anyone could find it funny but he was grinning away at the attendees.

They may have had to be seen attending to Covid, the cost of living crisis and the War in Ukraine but much of that, like Gove's temper tantrum, is PR designed window dressing. They were and still are only interested in politics, in winning the next election.

This wicked and immoral party will pretend Covid is over - goodness it's almost like no one died. Their MPs will tell you the only people who need food banks need to go out and get a job or increased hours. And although they will condemn the destructions of people's lives in Ukraine, they will do their level best to make it difficult, if not impossible, for them to come here.

Meanwhile, you can watch a very well made programme on Channel 4 tonight called "What if Putin goes Nuclear". At least some people are taking this seriously.

JenniferEccles Sun 20-Mar-22 15:14:06

Although I agree that the PM’s words were somewhat crass and tactless, it’s perfectly obvious that he wasn’t making a direct comparison with the terrible events in Ukraine.
Everyone, surely, could see the point he was making about freedom and sovereignty, yet the Left of course has jumped on what he said with predicable outrage.

The PM is as horrified as we all are at Putin’s actions. He has condemned the invasion on many occasions over the past few weeks so there was no need for him to spell out the differences between Brexit and the situation in Ukraine because most of us understood what he meant.

Never mind. It does appear that some people positively delight in being outraged!

volver Sun 20-Mar-22 15:23:32

I don't expect anybody has accused Hartley-Brewer of being on the left lately.

volver Sun 20-Mar-22 15:32:33

Well being apart from the EU certainly helped us in the early days of the procurement and rolling out of vaccines Gill57.

Untrue. Any EU country was free to procure and roll out vaccines in any way they saw fit.

Cases per million in UK, 293,000. Cases per million in Spain, 242,000

Deaths per million in the UK, 2,387. Deaths per million in Spain, 2,174.

Explain to me again how much better we've done in the UK?

DaisyAnne Sun 20-Mar-22 15:48:56

Out Here in Spain? Teachers. Paramedics. Police.
Front line workers but not elderly.
I think we were pretty amazing in the UK.

Why was that wrong Urmstongran? It's just a different choice of order and I would have thought a logical one. I would have been happy with that and prepared to protect myself until they got to the older age groups. I am assuming you are not saying the generally more vulnerable by age never received a vaccination.

Dickens Sun 20-Mar-22 15:51:00

GillT57

Very careless mistake there Maudi. I really do despair, the information and evidence is there for all to see, the Brexit campaign was supported by and funded by Putin, and many high profile people were either in his pay, or too stupid to see they were stooges. So, anyone like to speak up for Daniel Hannan, Richard Tice, Nigel Farage, GB news, many of the ERG group, Johnson? Johnson is a blabbering liar, a self centred man obsessed with staying in power, he is not fit for the job, but to my mind, the worst aspect is that he is a security risk. Frankly, I think he should be arrested and charged with treason. As for Brexit, he was only the front man on that, the one chosen, god help us, to appeal to a certain group of the electorate, people easily swayed by false rhetoric, fear of 'others', people who read and believe certain newspapers, people who unbelievably, will forgive him anything, however appalling, however crass, because, well Brexit.

Brexit was a confidence trick. Certainly Russia backed it. The conclusion from that heavily redacted, damning report was that no evidence had been seen of successful interference because no serious effort was made to do so. In stark contrast to the US where an intelligence assessment was made within 2 months of the Presidential vote... and an unclassified summary, which was made public, was produced.

We are a chosen destination for oligarchs and their money - and no one will convince me that they have not become an unscrupulous force in our public life through their connections.

But Brexit is what we have. And any notions of re-joining any time soon are pie-in-the-sky. We could, however, have a better relationship with the EU, but with Johnson's constant anti-EU rhetoric, this is not likely any time soon. And to liken the Ukraine's plight, with people being blown to smithereens by bombs, to Brexit, is not only crass and insensitive... it's a clear indication of the man's determination to keep up the hostility towards the EU.

And to have seen photo's of men draped in the Union Jack, or its component, grinning with a beer in hand, and comparing them with Ukrainian men who've said goodbye to their wives, children, and family to fight (and possibly die) the Russian invasion which has already killed over 100 children... well frankly, Johnson's comment is nothing short of nauseating.

Power does not alter a man's character. It merely reveals it. (George H Smith, American author, educator, and speaker).

GillT57 Sun 20-Mar-22 15:54:50

Just a quick reminder Urm. Despite your hero Jacob Rees-Mogg, Minister for Brexit Opportunities, using covid19 vaccination programmes as a massive benefit of Brexit, can I just point out that you voted to leave the EU in June 2016, just under 3 years before covid19 reared it's head so, at best, this was an accidental/unintentional advantage.

Urmstongran Sun 20-Mar-22 15:58:40

I am assuming you are not saying the generally more vulnerable by age never received a vaccination

Not at all DaisyAnne but my 86y old neighbour waited a further 14 months with others- all residents, all on a health centre ‘list’ - for hers. Some wait eh? She was frantic.

Urmstongran Sun 20-Mar-22 16:00:58

Untrue. Any EU country was free to procure and roll out vaccines in any way they saw fit.

Oh yes. I’d forgotten about Ursula Von de Leyen hastily (then regrettably) invoking Article 16....

?

Urmstongran Sun 20-Mar-22 16:02:29

GillT57

Just a quick reminder Urm. Despite your hero Jacob Rees-Mogg, Minister for Brexit Opportunities, using covid19 vaccination programmes as a massive benefit of Brexit, can I just point out that you voted to leave the EU in June 2016, just under 3 years before covid19 reared it's head so, at best, this was an accidental/unintentional advantage.

True indeed. But what an absolutely bluddy brilliant Brexit bonus! Icing on the cake indeed.

Lucca Sun 20-Mar-22 16:04:51

JenniferEccles

Although I agree that the PM’s words were somewhat crass and tactless, it’s perfectly obvious that he wasn’t making a direct comparison with the terrible events in Ukraine.
Everyone, surely, could see the point he was making about freedom and sovereignty, yet the Left of course has jumped on what he said with predicable outrage.

The PM is as horrified as we all are at Putin’s actions. He has condemned the invasion on many occasions over the past few weeks so there was no need for him to spell out the differences between Brexit and the situation in Ukraine because most of us understood what he meant.

Never mind. It does appear that some people positively delight in being outraged!

Yes … “ It does appear that some people positively delight in being outraged!”. On h and m threads for example….

But plenty on the right also shocked by his Johnson’s words,

Lucca Sun 20-Mar-22 16:06:18

Great post Dickens

volver Sun 20-Mar-22 16:06:32

Urmstongran

^Untrue. Any EU country was free to procure and roll out vaccines in any way they saw fit.^

Oh yes. I’d forgotten about Ursula Von de Leyen hastily (then regrettably) invoking Article 16....

?

You know fine that had nothing to do with it, don't you?

Its the disingenuousness that gets wearing... ?

Urmstongran Sun 20-Mar-22 16:16:22

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/von-der-leyen-expresses-regret-over-use-of-article-16-in-covid-vaccine-exports-row-1.4473503

❓❓

DaisyAnne Sun 20-Mar-22 16:16:24

JenniferEccles why did he need to make a comparison? It was always going to be seen as invidious.

Hartley-Brewer has been mentioned; she is a "hard Brexiteer". Senior Conservatives have also commented. Unless you use"the left" as a portmanteau description of everyone who disagrees with your view, it is not only the "the left" who have complained.

When you look at the outrage many feel, for the way he used the Ukrainians, it can only be that Johnson did not understand how offensive his remarks would appear to many, including Conservatives. Either that, or he didn't care. That makes him either a fool or a scoundrel or both.

growstuff Sun 20-Mar-22 16:17:03

JenniferEccles

Although I agree that the PM’s words were somewhat crass and tactless, it’s perfectly obvious that he wasn’t making a direct comparison with the terrible events in Ukraine.
Everyone, surely, could see the point he was making about freedom and sovereignty, yet the Left of course has jumped on what he said with predicable outrage.

The PM is as horrified as we all are at Putin’s actions. He has condemned the invasion on many occasions over the past few weeks so there was no need for him to spell out the differences between Brexit and the situation in Ukraine because most of us understood what he meant.

Never mind. It does appear that some people positively delight in being outraged!

Wow! This is a text-book example of gas lighting.

volver Sun 20-Mar-22 16:18:39

Urmstongran

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/von-der-leyen-expresses-regret-over-use-of-article-16-in-covid-vaccine-exports-row-1.4473503

❓❓

Well I was wrong.

Maybe you don't understand it at all.

Nightsky2 Sun 20-Mar-22 16:22:54

DaisyAnne

Just out of interest Urmstongran, how will you feel if it does turn out Brexit was "a Kremlin project. as has been suggested by many who know more than we do?

Russia had nothing to do with Brexit.

Certain corners of the internet have become obsessed yet again- with Russia’s supposed involvement in Brexit.

Putin is a vicious, petty tyrant but he’s not the Brexit bogeyman.

growstuff Sun 20-Mar-22 16:23:54

Urmstongran

GillT57

Just a quick reminder Urm. Despite your hero Jacob Rees-Mogg, Minister for Brexit Opportunities, using covid19 vaccination programmes as a massive benefit of Brexit, can I just point out that you voted to leave the EU in June 2016, just under 3 years before covid19 reared it's head so, at best, this was an accidental/unintentional advantage.

True indeed. But what an absolutely bluddy brilliant Brexit bonus! Icing on the cake indeed.

No, it wasn't a Brexit bonus!! The UK could always have acted independently. I sometimes wonder if you actually believe the rubbish you come out with or whether it's deliberate winding up.

growstuff Sun 20-Mar-22 16:24:16

Nightsky2

DaisyAnne

Just out of interest Urmstongran, how will you feel if it does turn out Brexit was "a Kremlin project. as has been suggested by many who know more than we do?

Russia had nothing to do with Brexit.

Certain corners of the internet have become obsessed yet again- with Russia’s supposed involvement in Brexit.

Putin is a vicious, petty tyrant but he’s not the Brexit bogeyman.

Yes, it did.

vegansrock Sun 20-Mar-22 16:26:06

“everyone could see the point he was making about freedom and sovereignty”
No that’s where you are wrong “jennifereccles”. There is no comparison with a country getting out of a trade agreement on a slim majority and a country being invaded militarily by an external aggressor and thousands killed. I don’t see what freedoms I have gained - on the contrary , I’ve lost freedoms, and as for sovereignty , that’s going so well isn’t it ? with P and O, sewage in the sea, migrants in boats, cutting regional grants, money laundering hubs, spending far more on Brexit than we did as members etc etc,

Urmstongran Sun 20-Mar-22 16:26:11

Who told you that? Benedict Cumberbatch?

volver Sun 20-Mar-22 16:28:09

I just thought that this would be a good place to add something I was told on here the other day.

Someone said that Putin hadn't had anything to do with their Brexit decision because she hadn't seen him on her Facebook feed.

Oh, if only the world was as simple as some people think it is...

Urmstongran Sun 20-Mar-22 16:42:34

Good job some voters don’t pay any attention to FB any time.
?

volver Sun 20-Mar-22 16:47:34

Been out for lunch Urmstongran? When I've visited Spain and gone out for lunch I always enjoyed a wee tinto de verano. You the same?

Blossoming Sun 20-Mar-22 16:49:34

It amazes me the way you seek to defend the indefensible Urmstongran. Peppa Pig highly relevant? Oh come on ….