Deliberate and orchestrated silencing of trans rights supporters on GN

See what I mean?

It's like a parallel universe.

Gagajo, you started this thread !!
I only wanted some examples.
Never mind eh.

There will be someone along who'll provide it I'm sure. Sorry if that seemed rude Lucca, it wasn't meant to.

I started the thread just as a public acknowledgement that just because we don't shout the loudest, that trans supporters do exist on GN. I'm no expert. It's just a personal POV.

Mollygo

Lucca. i.e. no-one can list JKR’s cancel worthy comments because they don’t exist.

Exactly! If they did it'd be a minute's work to list just one or two. People just repeat the mantra that JKR is transphobic without a shred of evidence. Like all those that condemned the Strike book not having read it ?

volver, you're the one who mentioned 'the other side'.

The point of this thread was to discuss politely, and up to a while ago that was, on the whole, what was happening. Everyone wouldn't hear what they wanted to hear, but as I've said, I don't see this topic as one where (with the best will in the world) there can be compromise.

Grannygravy's posts have been respectful and polite throughout, and there was no need to speak to her like that. None at all.

Don't tell me off Doodedog, I'm not a child.

discuss politely never comes into it on the Trans threads.

There is never compromise but there are instant assumptions about what people think and defensiveness about why people are getting involved.

Mollygo & Rose21, I'm not here to be dictated to. You know this by now.

I never mentioned JKR, someone else brought her into the discussion. Neither did I mention the Strike book. I doubt if any of us have read it.

This is a genial discussion. Not a 'go get me an answer' inquisition.

GagaJo

There will be someone along who'll provide it I'm sure. Sorry if that seemed rude Lucca, it wasn't meant to.

I started the thread just as a public acknowledgement that just because we don't shout the loudest, that trans supporters do exist on GN. I'm no expert. It's just a personal POV.

Gaga, I don't think that the implication that the so-called GCFs should the loudest is fair.

I don't think I have ever started a thread about trans issues. I may have done and forgotten, but at least 9 out of 10 of my comments on the subject are in direct reponse to those posted by 'TRA's. I think that is true of many, if not all of us.

The premise of the thread is that TRAs are reasonable and rational, and that 'GRF's plot and scheme to silence you. That, in itself, is taking a hostile position, and is simply not true. Just recently there was a raft of deletions because people dared to criticise one of your number. We were silenced. AFAIK that has never happened the other way round.

The most high-profile victim of cancellation and silencing is JKR, yet as many of us have said, there is never a reason given for this beyond 'she is a transphobe'. I'm not saying that you personally have any responsibility to be aware of every nuance of every argument on this (or any other) topic, but it does seem like an opt-out to avoid answering this one.

Here is JKR in her own words, saying why she said what she said

volver

Don't tell me off Doodedog, I'm not a child.

discuss politely never comes into it on the Trans threads.

There is never compromise but there are instant assumptions about what people think and defensiveness about why people are getting involved.

You are not the head prefect either.

VioletSky
I am addressing this post to you. If I don't address you by name when I make other posts I am not addressing you directly, but in this post I am adressing you directly.

You state that transmen are men and transwomen are woman and I do think that you truly believe those statements.
The thing is though, other people do not believe the same thing.
I don't know where you live but I live in a large and very diverse city where the rights and convenience of different groups of people have to be taken into consideration, in an attempt to make society fair to everyone, as much as we can.

If we were to accept a blanket rule that transwomen are women and must be allowed into anywhere that is open to women, that will impact on other people, to their own detriment. Their feelings are just as important as the feelings of trans people.
You may know that lots of Muslims live in our city, and some of them want to have activities that are just for women, that is women who were born female. If, as an example, our current women only swimming groups (which happen at practically all our leisure centres) were to allow transwomen to attend , the Muslim women would just quietly stop attending and therefore stop swimming. Which would be to their detriment.
I know that you are a thoughful person who wants to be kind to other people so I wonder if you could give a bit of thought about how to balance these rights and requests between different groups.
You and I have previously agreed (in public) about how there could be compromise in the placing of trans people in prison.

I have mentioned this before on another thread but was told (not by you), that the thread was not the place to talk about it.

* Just recently there was a raft of deletions because people dared to criticise one of your number. We were silenced.*

Yes, you mentioned this before, and I looked for these deletions but couldn't find them. Since we're not allowed to talk about other threads, I guess I'll never know!

The simple answer about JKR is that I don't know. I don't seek out trans stuff in the news and I was never a JKR fan so other than spending a fair amount of time Googling, I don't have an answer. I could moan on about what I see as the poor quality of her writing, but that isn't the topic at hand.

GagaJo

Mollygo & Rose21, I'm not here to be dictated to. You know this by now.

I never mentioned JKR, someone else brought her into the discussion. Neither did I mention the Strike book. I doubt if any of us have read it.

This is a genial discussion. Not a 'go get me an answer' inquisition.

Rosie51 here not Rose21 I'm not attempting to dictate to anyone. I merely stated that nobody has ever quoted anything derogatory said by JKR. Because those statements do not exist. Yet the mantra is still chanted, and she still gets death and rape threats by the bucketload.

I've read the Strike book, it did not feature a transwoman.

GagaJo

There will be someone along who'll provide it I'm sure. Sorry if that seemed rude Lucca, it wasn't meant to.

I started the thread just as a public acknowledgement that just because we don't shout the loudest, that trans supporters do exist on GN. I'm no expert. It's just a personal POV.

I think everyone knew fine there are trans supporters on GN. What you do not accept is that anyone questioning aspects of “trans support” asking, expressing some doubts etc can still be supportive of transitioners and is not automatically transphobic.

You are not the head prefect either.

No, I'm a person who doesn't have any strong views either way and has tried on a number of occasions to get some explanation of the whole thing.

Which generally evokes responses like "you've had your fun" or "it was polite until you turned up" or something similar. Then descent into jargon and TLAs that make the whole thing as clear as mud.

So here's what I think, not that anybody cares, I'm sure. We've got a group of people who will shout very loudly about safe spaces, and how a man can never be a woman, and how they'd never vote for a party that doesn't know what a woman is. And we've got a group of people that say all that is transphobia and we've all got to be open to accepting everyone's choices.

And anyone who thinks it's a storm in a teacup is a handmaiden of the patriarchy. Apparently.

Gawd help the patriarchy!

Good précis volver ✅
I can stop reading any further posts now. Thank you.

Aveline

Gawd help the patriarchy!

Sorry Lucca, I'm not sure what you mean? What you do not accept is that anyone questioning aspects of “trans support” asking, expressing some doubts etc can still be supportive of transitioners and is not automatically transphobic.

Trans people have enough struggles to deal with , without someone that has never met them, has no idea of their journey, and is not likely to have any direct contact with them to begin spouting their own beliefs about the subject.

jaylucy

Trans people have enough struggles to deal with , without someone that has never met them, has no idea of their journey, and is not likely to have any direct contact with them to begin spouting their own beliefs about the subject.

Who are you referring to that has never met them, has no idea of their journey, and is not likely to have any direct contact with them to begin spouting their own beliefs about the subject. ?

Is this silencing other opinions that differ to yours?

I’ve read the Strike book. It doesn’t feature a trans person

GagaJo

Mollygo & Rose21, I'm not here to be dictated to. You know this by now.
Equally we are not hear you be dictated to, by anyone on here not even passive aggressively like saying “*I am kind* meaning you aren’t but you must start being kind!

I never mentioned JKR, someone else brought her into the discussion. I’ve certainly read the letters JKR in at least one of your posts, but if you say you haven’t
. . .
Usually on here, when asked to list anything that JKR has said that’s transphobic and posters can’t do that because . . .
they resort to saying they haven’t got time or to cries of plagiarism (which exists on GN a lot) or criticising her writing style. Ho hum!

GagaJo

Sorry Lucca, I'm not sure what you mean? *What you do not accept is that anyone questioning aspects of “trans support” asking, expressing some doubts etc can still be supportive of transitioners and is not automatically transphobic.*

If anyone raises questions they are accused if being transphobic.

That article by jk Rowling which Doodledog posted is very interesting I hope everyone has read it.

Ah ok Lucca. It's possible.

Think that if you want to Mollygo. As always, I'm not up for an argument.

Lucca I’m sorry.
You can know transgender people. You can even have friends who are transgender and understand that they have had difficulties trying to exist as transgender. That’s not transphobic.
What you can’t do is criticise cheats like Lia Thomas or rapists like Karen White and
those who insist on lumping all women either AHF or TW (women 2004 version) together with trans like that.
That’s what accusations of transphobia does.