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Deliberate and orchestrated silencing of trans rights supporters on GN

(610 Posts)

GNHQ have commented on this thread. Read here.

GagaJo Fri 25-Mar-22 22:01:21

As the usual posters on trans threads know, I support trans rights and also self-label as an intersectional feminist.

The irony of that statement however, is that after the first few posts on the threads that deal with trans issues, I invariably more or less step away from them, other than the occasional comment. There are quite a few other posters that do the same. I could name them, but that would be inappropriate. The reason that we do this is due to the animosity and personal insults that are bandied about, towards those of us that support trans equality. No doubt, the same things will happen on this thread.

The point of this thread, therefore, is to show, publically, that despite the orchestrated attacks from gender criticial feminists, that there are still a good number of us that do not take that position.

To anyone that reads these threads but is too intimidated to join in for the reasons given above, I'm just saying, we are still here!

Doodledog Wed 30-Mar-22 09:51:35

Coastpath

Thinking about what it is to be a woman and of women, both those I know and women in general, I picture a certain set of attributes that are the result of a lifetime of being born a girl and being treated like a girl every single day until you are a woman. That process of being a woman is in every tiny detail, experience and encounter from birth until death. The way you are treated, received by others, taught and exposed to the world and the expectations place on you. That process is different for boys.

Does anyone wiser than me understand how men who transition to women assimilate all that girl/woman life experience, or is it not necessary or desirable for them to do so?

I have no agenda with this question, just a genuine desire for knowledge of a subject about which I know little.

They don't.

And I have no agenda in saying so either. Having an opinion doesn't mean that someone has an agenda, does it?

DiamondLily Wed 30-Mar-22 09:52:36

trisher

Oh JKR. I believe Putin thinks they share the same opinions about cancel culture.

Judging by Putin's behaviour, especially lately, I don't think we can take his opinions and comparisons as being valid in any way.....?

GrannyGravy13 Wed 30-Mar-22 10:01:49

volver

Rosie51

volver

What do we think of this?

www.jamiewallisbridgend.com/news/statement-from-jamie-wallis-mp-30th-march-2022

Why don't you start? Be good to know your thoughts.

I really don't know Rosie51 I feel sorry for Jamie.

But I also know that whatever I say the other "side" will have a go. Did anybody know that this person was trans?

Nobody can actually ask a straight question any more, can they? We all have to have "sides"...

I don’t know if it’s taking sides per se.

I feel very strongly regarding the trans issue and female sport, as muscle mass, bone density, heart and lung size are all formed pre puberty and cannot be reversed which gives a trans woman an unfair advantage when competing against natal women.

A women is what she is due to her life experiences since birth, due to her hormones, due to her relationships etc.

I saw on Twitter this week a trans women complaining about ^ period pains, and how were women supposed to function whilst in pain and bleeding^ To say that I was furious, dismayed and outright gobsmacked is not an exaggeration.

How can a man, experience the above, it’s an impossibility especially the period pains…

Mollygo Wed 30-Mar-22 10:04:32

But I also know that whatever I say the other "side" will have a go. Did anybody know that this person was trans?
What does he mean when he says trans? I don’t understand.
A part of his conversation describes being raped. Rape still means with a penis, so the perpetrator must have been male. It can still be rape, and is no less serious, but is male with male now trans?

Doodledog Wed 30-Mar-22 10:06:37

Mollygo

Rosie51
I always wonder what anyone has against JKR. She's given millions to charity and I've never yet found one person who can actually quote one bad/transphobic thing she's said. Maybe because there. isn't. one. Criticise her writing if it isn't to your taste, but to dislike a person, give reasons, especially if you have no personal contact or knowledge of said person.

Good post Rosie51 with some excellent points.
I wouldn’t dare ask that, but perhaps you haven’t been warned.

I am still waiting to hear what JKR is supposed to have said that justifies the death threats and attempts at cancellation.

Saying that anyone who holds the opinion that people cannot change sex deserves to be threatened not only contravenes the law, as that belief is protected in law, but also shows a lack of belief in freedom of speech and thought. Citing Putin to back up one's belief consolidates the belief that thoughts and beliefs should be controlled.

Regardless of the politics of the above, it would be great to see what it is that JKR has said that has so upset the 'trans allies' on this thread. It won't happen, as it never does. It is one of the 'demands' (along with what is a woman' and 'how does someone know that they are the 'wrong' sex' that underpins their point of view (or would underpin an understanding of how it works, if only we were told what it is).

It is part of the 'through the looking glass' experience of believing that sex is immutable that we are told we are discriminatory, transphobic, Nazi, racist, homophobic and more, but not what it is that we are disagreeing with, or why it is that our most noteworthy and bravest ally has done so wrong.

A direct question to the so-called 'trans 'allies' - do you never ask yourselves why you think as you do when you can't answer these basic questions, or are you happy to belittle, insult and sneer at others based on a 'feeling'? Or do you know the answers but not want to share them for some reason?

Volver's link doesn't work for me, either.

volver Wed 30-Mar-22 10:08:26

With respect GG13, we're straight away into the usual territory.

yes, yes, Jamie had a hard time, but what about sport!

What does he mean trans? Was it really rape??

To an outside observer, its all just a bit obsessive. Sorry sad

Another link: metro.co.uk/2022/03/30/tory-mp-reveals-they-have-been-raped-and-blackmailed-after-coming-out-as-trans-16369865/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

Doodledog Wed 30-Mar-22 10:11:16

I have just seen the posts above this one, and infer that a transperson was raped. I am not clear whether Jamie is male or female, but that doesn't matter (it's that I am aware that there are those waiting to take offence on Jamie's behalf). Either way, rape is horrible.

As I can't open the link, can someone please explain what the case is being used to illustrate? Whether the rape is of a transperson or by a transperson is (IMO) equally horrible. I am assuming that it is one or the other?

Rosie51 Wed 30-Mar-22 10:12:15

volver

Rosie51

volver

What do we think of this?

www.jamiewallisbridgend.com/news/statement-from-jamie-wallis-mp-30th-march-2022

Why don't you start? Be good to know your thoughts.

I really don't know Rosie51 I feel sorry for Jamie.

But I also know that whatever I say the other "side" will have a go. Did anybody know that this person was trans?

Nobody can actually ask a straight question any more, can they? We all have to have "sides"...

I think the rape was as awful as any other person who has been raped. I had no knowledge of this MP at all let alone his 'trans' status, I hope he gets all the help he needs to recover from a horrible ordeal. I also don't agree with anyone being 'outed' like this. I didn't agree when Peter Tatchell was advocating it, and I still don't. Personal life as long as it's legal is just that, personal and private.

Lucca Wed 30-Mar-22 10:13:35

That comment about Putin ? Really?
But… I’m getting so fed up with not getting a straight answer. I have no agenda. I genuinely wanted to have evidence quotes whatever of jkr which merit what has happened to her

GrannyGravy13 Wed 30-Mar-22 10:14:58

volver

With respect GG13, we're straight away into the usual territory.

yes, yes, Jamie had a hard time, but what about sport!

What does he mean trans? Was it really rape??

To an outside observer, its all just a bit obsessive. Sorry sad

Another link: metro.co.uk/2022/03/30/tory-mp-reveals-they-have-been-raped-and-blackmailed-after-coming-out-as-trans-16369865/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

volver hang on a minute, where did I say was it really rape please?

I suggest you read my first reply to you once again.

My second reply, was trying to outline how I feel regarding the whole trans issue, I am sorry that you feel this is same old same old , but if you asks the same questions you will get the same answers, which is why these trans threads are so repetitive.

GagaJo Wed 30-Mar-22 10:15:46

volver

What do we think of this?

www.jamiewallisbridgend.com/news/statement-from-jamie-wallis-mp-30th-march-2022

I think s/he's terribly sad. No wonder s/he's in a mess. Hiding something as fundamental as the person you feel yourself to be will be almost unbearable.

Good on her/him for being honest and open. Better than suicide.

volver Wed 30-Mar-22 10:17:25

GrannyGravy13

volver

With respect GG13, we're straight away into the usual territory.

yes, yes, Jamie had a hard time, but what about sport!

What does he mean trans? Was it really rape??

To an outside observer, its all just a bit obsessive. Sorry sad

Another link: metro.co.uk/2022/03/30/tory-mp-reveals-they-have-been-raped-and-blackmailed-after-coming-out-as-trans-16369865/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

volver hang on a minute, where did I say was it really rape please?

I suggest you read my first reply to you once again.

My second reply, was trying to outline how I feel regarding the whole trans issue, I am sorry that you feel this is same old same old , but if you asks the same questions you will get the same answers, which is why these trans threads are so repetitive.

Why is it that so many people think every comment on GN is aimed at them?

Mollygo. 10:04.

As someone else said the other day, incoming discussion on semantics to follow...

GrannyGravy13 Wed 30-Mar-22 10:18:04

Lucca

That comment about Putin ? Really?
But… I’m getting so fed up with not getting a straight answer. I have no agenda. I genuinely wanted to have evidence quotes whatever of jkr which merit what has happened to her

Lucca from what I understand it started off as a Twitter spat over some legislation the Scottish Government had put or were going to put through regarding trans women and the language used to refer to natal women.

JKR was standing up for women and their erasure through language used.

(I am happy to be corrected)

GrannyGravy13 Wed 30-Mar-22 10:19:15

volver maybe that you mentioned me in the first line of your post was the giveaway?

toscalily Wed 30-Mar-22 10:21:09

Over the past few days I have read all of the two very long threads relating to these issues and have learnt many things where previously I knew very little, come across words I did not know and now have a far greater understanding relating to all things Trans. This is thanks to the many contributions made, mostly without unpleasantness and can only be of benefit to us all.

volver Wed 30-Mar-22 10:21:35

GrannyGravy13

volver maybe that you mentioned me in the first line of your post was the giveaway?

Well RTFT.

Its how group conversations work.

Doodledog Wed 30-Mar-22 10:26:24

Well RTFT. Its how group conversations work.
And the pax transica was going so well ?

GagaJo Wed 30-Mar-22 10:26:44

toscalily

Over the past few days I have read all of the two very long threads relating to these issues and have learnt many things where previously I knew very little, come across words I did not know and now have a far greater understanding relating to all things Trans. This is thanks to the many contributions made, mostly without unpleasantness and can only be of benefit to us all.

I agree it's been a lot more polite than usual toscalily. As it should be. Makes it much more possible to have a real discussion.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 30-Mar-22 10:28:44

volver

GrannyGravy13

volver maybe that you mentioned me in the first line of your post was the giveaway?

Well RTFT.

Its how group conversations work.

There really is no need to be sarcastic volver

I always try my hardest to remain polite and answer peoples posts, and the way your post of 10.08 was worded it appeared to be directed at me.

Mollygo Wed 30-Mar-22 10:32:46

So, is trans now a blanket term to cover everyone’s sexual proclivities
Gay or lesbian or bi-or d-t-d or heterosexual or does it only refer to those wishing to change gender?

Lucca Wed 30-Mar-22 10:42:25

Gagajo now you are on maybe you can list jkr’s cancel worthy comments (no sarcasm intended it just looks like that)

volver Wed 30-Mar-22 11:01:12

There is no pax transica, unless you are one of the chosen few.

Anyone who genuinely doesn't see the point of half the arguments on here gets picked on. That's how it feels. Not feeling sorry for myself, I can give as good as I get, but there is no middle way in this argument, you're either with us or agin us.

This morning people have been called disrespectful, the word T**T was used, JKR had been compared to Putin and there has been goading to answer my own questions. That ain't no pax transica.

GagaJo Wed 30-Mar-22 11:06:57

Lucca

Gagajo now you are on maybe you can list jkr’s cancel worthy comments (no sarcasm intended it just looks like that)

If I was going to put that amount of work into something Lucca, it would be paid work OR for my family.

I'm not that interested in JKR to be honest, other than 1) She got a couple of generations of kids reading, for which I'm grateful and 2) I think her books are not great.

Mollygo Wed 30-Mar-22 11:11:41

Lucca. i.e. no-one can list JKR’s cancel worthy comments because they don’t exist.

Mollygo Wed 30-Mar-22 11:12:47

Pax transica is being told to RTFT evidently.